Here I sit, at 3.15am, because I can't get to sleep.
Why can't I get to sleep?
Because there's a party going on in a flat in the council property I live in, which nobody is prepared to stop.
The police aren't interested because, apparently, they don't get involved in noise abatement issues anymore.
The council won't do anything, because they finish at 3am.
So who is going to help?
I've been out three times, in an effort to get the music turned down, but to no avail; I fear if I go out again, it's quite likely that I will be physically assaulted.
I've explained this to the police and their advice was to not go out again, although they thought it unlikely that they would even get a patrol to make a visit.
My father suffers from dementia and rarely sleeps at night (which means that I and my mother don't sleep very well either) but, on this one night where he wants to sleep, he can't and neither can we.
What kind of service do we pay our exhorbitant taxes for?
Does anyone know who I should be directing my bile at, because I need to get to the bottom of why this country is failing to support it's most needy.
When is somebody going to take control?
my information may not be up to date.
Essentially, neighbourhood noise is a Council problem. In practice it is very difficult to enforce, as monitoring of nose levels would need to be conducted prior to any police action. Essentially causing additional delay and associated problems.
Bensonby is the sage on such matters, but i would have thought citing a public order offence would be a more practical route, if possible.
Sorry i can't be of more help. In these instances you don't want any longer-term damage to your neighbourly relations which will cause future problems.
Essentially, neighbourhood noise is a Council problem. In practice it is very difficult to enforce, as monitoring of nose levels would need to be conducted prior to any police action. Essentially causing additional delay and associated problems.
Bensonby is the sage on such matters, but i would have thought citing a public order offence would be a more practical route, if possible.
Sorry i can't be of more help. In these instances you don't want any longer-term damage to your neighbourly relations which will cause future problems.
Blimey, aren't we all up early today!
It is a quandry...as it is such a quality of life issue and no doubt on a friday night/Saturday morning we are all expected to be rather more tolerant - irrespective of the fact that some people still need to be up for work the next morning at some ungodly hour.
Unfortunately there isn't a huge amount that can be done: especially if this a one off or a rare occurance. Some coucils provide a special 24 hour noise team on a fri/sat night - but this clearly isn't the case here. And, indeed, unfortunately, in my mind at least, an anti-social level of noise isn't always an illegal one. As has already been said: it isn't a police matter and I don't think it ever has been.
If it's an ongoing problem then there are, of course, avenues that can be taken. The council should do an investigation and, in this case, as lanlords have extensive powers.....in additon to their enviroental health ones. But, naturally, this sort of approach can take ages and leave life a living he'll in the meantime.
Of course the first approach should always be to politely ask your neighbours to turn it down. Which it seems you did in this case. After several attempts I suppose you could get on the phone to police and tell them that you are getting so wound up by the intolerable racket that you are going down there again and you fear an imminent breach of the peace.... The more noise and disturbance in the background might speed up a response. However, it's not a tactic I'd wholheartedly recommend. You'll pobably get a response. But, dependig on the copper, you'd potentially make yourself liable to get nicked- equally alongside the noisy neighbour. And, while they'd be sympathetic to your problem they have little power to do anything about the actual noise.
Sorry I couldn't offer much more help...
It is a quandry...as it is such a quality of life issue and no doubt on a friday night/Saturday morning we are all expected to be rather more tolerant - irrespective of the fact that some people still need to be up for work the next morning at some ungodly hour.
Unfortunately there isn't a huge amount that can be done: especially if this a one off or a rare occurance. Some coucils provide a special 24 hour noise team on a fri/sat night - but this clearly isn't the case here. And, indeed, unfortunately, in my mind at least, an anti-social level of noise isn't always an illegal one. As has already been said: it isn't a police matter and I don't think it ever has been.
If it's an ongoing problem then there are, of course, avenues that can be taken. The council should do an investigation and, in this case, as lanlords have extensive powers.....in additon to their enviroental health ones. But, naturally, this sort of approach can take ages and leave life a living he'll in the meantime.
Of course the first approach should always be to politely ask your neighbours to turn it down. Which it seems you did in this case. After several attempts I suppose you could get on the phone to police and tell them that you are getting so wound up by the intolerable racket that you are going down there again and you fear an imminent breach of the peace.... The more noise and disturbance in the background might speed up a response. However, it's not a tactic I'd wholheartedly recommend. You'll pobably get a response. But, dependig on the copper, you'd potentially make yourself liable to get nicked- equally alongside the noisy neighbour. And, while they'd be sympathetic to your problem they have little power to do anything about the actual noise.
Sorry I couldn't offer much more help...
I thought I might add something here as I have some personal experience in this area rebelmc.
When I first moved to Sydders I had the unfortunate bad luck of having a truly awful couple as my neighbours. Allied to the fact that this bob-a-job cowboy-builder nearly ruined the home they thought it perfectly acceptable to have loud parties almost every single weekend.
When politely challenged by I she would respond with "it's Ok, it's the weekend mate"...
Mine and theirs was privately owned so the Council's powers were slightly limited. The worst of it all was it meant that on Friday and Saturday evenings I would retire to bed and lie there waiting for them to come back mob-handed with their ghastly mates...I'd get really stressed out pre-party, never mind during!
Now, they've mercifully long since gone but here's a few things I did:
I suggest you keep a log. Write down when the party started and finished. Can you sneak some pictures or make an audio recording? Make mention of whether it's music/shouting/banging of doors etc. As your place is Local Authority owned this will help your landlord should they decide to do anything about it. Gather as much data and evidence as you can...safely.
I did let myself down and fight fire-with-fire. As 6 o'clock rolled around and people would leave [I hadn't had any sleep so no point trying] I'd turn my speakers to their common-party areas and give them what for. Not something I'd reccomend but it did have an effect, a taste of their own medicine and all that, especially when they would be trying to sleep then themselves. Not a sensible approach but effective for a time.
The main issue is how woefully sound-proofed non-modern stock is. If this is a one off then hopefully it isn't a sign of things to come. After all excessive noise which leads to sleep deprivation is, I believe, tantamount to torture.
bensonby is partially correct. This is no longer a police matter but they did until a few years ago have jurisdiction in this area. It took up too much time so they handily palmed it off onto the L.A. as a civil matter. My understanding is that the Police will still get involved though, at the behest of the L.A. IF the noise is above a certain level the first time the council visits and they are called to return they will return with the Police to remove the sound-system/shut the party down?
In the short term might I reccommend a visit to a chemists for some ear-plugs.
When I first moved to Sydders I had the unfortunate bad luck of having a truly awful couple as my neighbours. Allied to the fact that this bob-a-job cowboy-builder nearly ruined the home they thought it perfectly acceptable to have loud parties almost every single weekend.
When politely challenged by I she would respond with "it's Ok, it's the weekend mate"...
Mine and theirs was privately owned so the Council's powers were slightly limited. The worst of it all was it meant that on Friday and Saturday evenings I would retire to bed and lie there waiting for them to come back mob-handed with their ghastly mates...I'd get really stressed out pre-party, never mind during!
Now, they've mercifully long since gone but here's a few things I did:
I suggest you keep a log. Write down when the party started and finished. Can you sneak some pictures or make an audio recording? Make mention of whether it's music/shouting/banging of doors etc. As your place is Local Authority owned this will help your landlord should they decide to do anything about it. Gather as much data and evidence as you can...safely.
I did let myself down and fight fire-with-fire. As 6 o'clock rolled around and people would leave [I hadn't had any sleep so no point trying] I'd turn my speakers to their common-party areas and give them what for. Not something I'd reccomend but it did have an effect, a taste of their own medicine and all that, especially when they would be trying to sleep then themselves. Not a sensible approach but effective for a time.
The main issue is how woefully sound-proofed non-modern stock is. If this is a one off then hopefully it isn't a sign of things to come. After all excessive noise which leads to sleep deprivation is, I believe, tantamount to torture.
bensonby is partially correct. This is no longer a police matter but they did until a few years ago have jurisdiction in this area. It took up too much time so they handily palmed it off onto the L.A. as a civil matter. My understanding is that the Police will still get involved though, at the behest of the L.A. IF the noise is above a certain level the first time the council visits and they are called to return they will return with the Police to remove the sound-system/shut the party down?
In the short term might I reccommend a visit to a chemists for some ear-plugs.
I thought I'd start a new reply rather than add to the previous.
rebelmc:
If you live where I remember then might you also be able to call upon Southwark's Environmental Enforcement teams?
http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourService ... eProblems/
The reason I did not take my horrid pair to court is that despite them being in clear breach of freehold law I didn't want to have to declare a 'problem neighbour' should I have sold up. You might be free of this concern.
I wish you and your parents all the best and hope it resolves itself soon.
rebelmc:
If you live where I remember then might you also be able to call upon Southwark's Environmental Enforcement teams?
http://www.southwark.gov.uk/YourService ... eProblems/
The reason I did not take my horrid pair to court is that despite them being in clear breach of freehold law I didn't want to have to declare a 'problem neighbour' should I have sold up. You might be free of this concern.
I wish you and your parents all the best and hope it resolves itself soon.
I absolutely agree with ulysses's suggestion of a log - invaluable.
Re. The police getting involved at the behest of the coucil - this, I believe, is only to "back up" the coucil's enforcement.
Also, I believe this doesn't come under the umberella of civil law...it's my understanding that evironmental health (which this falls under) is a criminal matter but not the part that is enforced by the police. Much in the se vein as flytipping, health and safety etc.
Re. The police getting involved at the behest of the coucil - this, I believe, is only to "back up" the coucil's enforcement.
Also, I believe this doesn't come under the umberella of civil law...it's my understanding that evironmental health (which this falls under) is a criminal matter but not the part that is enforced by the police. Much in the se vein as flytipping, health and safety etc.
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Great Bustard
- Posts: 53
- Joined: 30 Apr 2009 12:45
- Location: Kirkdale
I had a nightmare neighbour in a previous house. The litle swine opened his windows late at night, put the speakers outside, and then went out.
I informed the council, kept a log, and the council served a noise abatement order against him. I had to go to court - another neighbour was also a witneess.
Meanwhile, the brat's dad finally took the matter into his hands - and threw hi stereo out of the window.
I informed the council, kept a log, and the council served a noise abatement order against him. I had to go to court - another neighbour was also a witneess.
Meanwhile, the brat's dad finally took the matter into his hands - and threw hi stereo out of the window.
I am veryn sympathetic and distressed.
You should not at any time of day or night create a noise which would cause your neighbours distress. Surely this is cristian and common sence approach.
People who choose to ignore this should be locked up and their benefits taken away.
To get Police out just say you have a weapon and and going to sort matter out as they will not. Seems the thought of the innocent about to get revenge gets Police out like nothing else
Very best wishes to you.
You should not at any time of day or night create a noise which would cause your neighbours distress. Surely this is cristian and common sence approach.
People who choose to ignore this should be locked up and their benefits taken away.
To get Police out just say you have a weapon and and going to sort matter out as they will not. Seems the thought of the innocent about to get revenge gets Police out like nothing else
Very best wishes to you.
What has religion got to do with common sense?Eagle wrote:Surely this is cristian and common sence approach.
Am I right in thinking that you seriously advocate custodial sentences to punish the crime of playing loud music? Do you have any proof that antisocial noise is only generated by people in receipt of benefits?Eagle wrote:People who choose to ignore this should be locked up and their benefits taken away.
No, don't do this, unless you want to get nicked yourself.Eagle wrote:To get Police out just say you have a weapon and and going to sort matter out as they will not.
Even if revenge is high on one's agenda, I don't think that attacking the neighbours with a weapon will be considered proportionate; if they are in fact real wrong 'uns, you'll be causing yourself far more problems than you'll solve.Eagle wrote:Seems the thought of the innocent about to get revenge gets Police out like nothing else.
Rebelmc, you have my sympathy. When I lived in Brixton, we had some very noisy neighbours. I looked on the bright side and decided that this gave me carte blanche to crank my guitar amp up to 11, Spinal Tap styleee, whenever I wanted. Ah, those were the days - nowadays, I have to hire out a rehearsal room in a Deptford studio if I want to do my Matt Belamy impression. But I digress... I realise that, if you're of a quieter persuasion, "doing to thine neighbour as they do unto you" is not an option. Go with Ulysses and Bensonby's advice.
Noisy and rude neighbours are a very serious matter.
I remember a few years ago hearing about a case in Tottenham when neighbour driven mad by continous loud noise and he cracked and firebombed the place.
Whilst agreeing a bit extreme I can see where he came from as no one would listen. If the law refuses to act then sometimes people will act out of despair.
If people want to haer loud music should go to a club and not inflict it on their neighbours.
I remember a few years ago hearing about a case in Tottenham when neighbour driven mad by continous loud noise and he cracked and firebombed the place.
Whilst agreeing a bit extreme I can see where he came from as no one would listen. If the law refuses to act then sometimes people will act out of despair.
If people want to haer loud music should go to a club and not inflict it on their neighbours.
Can I offer one final piece of practical advice?
It's important to try and equalise the noise. Assuming you and your parents don't require absolute silence in order to sleep you coud try one of those whale tapes or crashing surf...a bit 80's new-wave hippy types I'll grant you.
Otherwise you just lie there 'listening out'...
MY solution was to buy a stand-up fan. The low hum serves to equalise the noise sufficiently enough to sleep [assuming the noise isn't coming from directly next to/above/below the bedroom] and offers the additional benefit of keeping you cool.
It's important to try and equalise the noise. Assuming you and your parents don't require absolute silence in order to sleep you coud try one of those whale tapes or crashing surf...a bit 80's new-wave hippy types I'll grant you.
Otherwise you just lie there 'listening out'...
MY solution was to buy a stand-up fan. The low hum serves to equalise the noise sufficiently enough to sleep [assuming the noise isn't coming from directly next to/above/below the bedroom] and offers the additional benefit of keeping you cool.
I too have problem neighbours to the point where I'm considering moving away from Sydenham. They've spoilt the suburb for me and after reading this thread it seems to be quite common in Sydenham. When I complain I get screeched at and am called all sort of things. But when I, on a rare ocassion, get noisey outside the permitted hours they're straight up the stairs to complain and threaten getting the police around. Mind you, only did it once after a drunken night out in the 2 years I've lived here. Alas for me it's not only the noise it's other things as well.
Anyway my advice is to do everything above board, no matter how frustrated you get. That way if it goes to a mediation hearing you can prove that you've acted just and lawfully. Keep a diary of the noise and what you did to rectify the matter. Lewisham Council have a good webpage detailing what to do http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/ ... efault.htm
This is the action I am going to take but unfortunately since the last name calling session they've gone quiet. Unfortunate 'coz I was dying to start taking offical action
For now, like Chazza I find that cranking up Muse at full volume gets my point across - a bit of Matt Bellamy at his best tends to shut them up.
Anyway my advice is to do everything above board, no matter how frustrated you get. That way if it goes to a mediation hearing you can prove that you've acted just and lawfully. Keep a diary of the noise and what you did to rectify the matter. Lewisham Council have a good webpage detailing what to do http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/Environment/ ... efault.htm
This is the action I am going to take but unfortunately since the last name calling session they've gone quiet. Unfortunate 'coz I was dying to start taking offical action
For now, like Chazza I find that cranking up Muse at full volume gets my point across - a bit of Matt Bellamy at his best tends to shut them up.
Don't let the fact that the majority of posts actually cite that the noise problem existed in other parts of London dissuade you or that they were some time ago?noangel wrote:I too have problem neighbours to the point where I'm considering moving away from Sydenham. They've spoilt the suburb for me and after reading this thread it seems to be quite common in Sydenham.
The last post I read from you was equally as disparaging. Look, we get the fact you don't like Sydders. We get the fact that you let your experience of living in Silverdale cloud your view of the place.
My only question is, can you hurry up about it? If only to give your neighbours some peace from you blasting your music. Funnily enough, I'd imagine they see you as a problem neighbour.
I had problems where I used to live and the council did nothing (despite their promises, they seemed to side on the side of the people making noise as stopping them playing loud music would infringe their human rights).
It is a serious problem but the police and council seem powerless to do anything about it. Or they are not interested.
Those involved in this have my deepest sympathies, I know what it can do to you.
It is a serious problem but the police and council seem powerless to do anything about it. Or they are not interested.
Those involved in this have my deepest sympathies, I know what it can do to you.
Dear Ulysses
Well that wasn't a very nice response. Where you trying to reinforce my point about Sydenham? If you got your facts right you would have seen my post prior to my response to this thread was actually praising the area and encouraging people to get out and see Sydenham.
You know nothing about my situation. My comment about the loud music was said in jest, I only did it once and apologised the next morning. The response I got to my apology was threats to call the police. What I have to put up with ranges from drug fuelled parties to silly things like my rubbish bin being removed from the allocated area (which apparently is my fault). When I was off work seriously ill and bed ridden last year they would bang on the ceiling in the early hours of the morning to ensure I was awake. They had a big argument over it as he was against her doing it hence the reason I know why it happen. Then there were the notes accusing me of doing all things when I was AWAY on a business trip. If I bump into them in the hallway I get called all sort of things. I've tried speaking to them in a calm manner, which has worked for me with other neighbours, but I get yell at and told I'm a weirdo 'coz they should be allowed what they want to do. If that was happening to you would you be happy with where you lived? I didn't eleborate on my situation because it wasn't my post to do so. This was about someone elses problem.
If you knew me you would know that I actively make use of the local businesses and spend my weekends wandering around Sydenham in awe of what it has to offer. Yes I don't like living in Silverdale as I have encountered some characters. When I do move it will be to another area of Sydenham.
Your comments were very hurtful and you would do well to sit and think before posting in the future. Actually are you my neighbour?
Well that wasn't a very nice response. Where you trying to reinforce my point about Sydenham? If you got your facts right you would have seen my post prior to my response to this thread was actually praising the area and encouraging people to get out and see Sydenham.
You know nothing about my situation. My comment about the loud music was said in jest, I only did it once and apologised the next morning. The response I got to my apology was threats to call the police. What I have to put up with ranges from drug fuelled parties to silly things like my rubbish bin being removed from the allocated area (which apparently is my fault). When I was off work seriously ill and bed ridden last year they would bang on the ceiling in the early hours of the morning to ensure I was awake. They had a big argument over it as he was against her doing it hence the reason I know why it happen. Then there were the notes accusing me of doing all things when I was AWAY on a business trip. If I bump into them in the hallway I get called all sort of things. I've tried speaking to them in a calm manner, which has worked for me with other neighbours, but I get yell at and told I'm a weirdo 'coz they should be allowed what they want to do. If that was happening to you would you be happy with where you lived? I didn't eleborate on my situation because it wasn't my post to do so. This was about someone elses problem.
If you knew me you would know that I actively make use of the local businesses and spend my weekends wandering around Sydenham in awe of what it has to offer. Yes I don't like living in Silverdale as I have encountered some characters. When I do move it will be to another area of Sydenham.
Your comments were very hurtful and you would do well to sit and think before posting in the future. Actually are you my neighbour?
Actually Ulysses, I took your point about being negative about the area and checked back on my previous posts because I thought that maybe I had. But there was only one negative post out of the 35 I've posted and that was about the stabbing in Silverdale. How could I be positive about that?
Golly gosh ....
Golly gosh ....
No Angel I am with you on this one. I am not sure where Ulyses is coming from
This is not a joking matter, as I mentioned earlier there was a case in North London when the person got so desperate they fire bombed the offenders.
THe lawmakers and judges tend to live in gated detached mansions so naturally they cannot see what the problem is.
If the offenders on in a subsidised council rented property or on benefit then all the worse as the victim is actually paying for the criminal to do their worst.
You have my sympathy Angel.
If you have not already suggest you get your 3 local councillors involved
This is not a joking matter, as I mentioned earlier there was a case in North London when the person got so desperate they fire bombed the offenders.
THe lawmakers and judges tend to live in gated detached mansions so naturally they cannot see what the problem is.
If the offenders on in a subsidised council rented property or on benefit then all the worse as the victim is actually paying for the criminal to do their worst.
You have my sympathy Angel.
If you have not already suggest you get your 3 local councillors involved