se23.com - an exile from the north speaks out

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 5 Dec 2009 00:03

What an excellent forum you have here. Everything that the se23.com forum should be, but isn't.

I realise being a forum administrator is hard work, but let's just say the guy running se23.com takes it a little too seriously.

I don't know who he is (I'm assuming it's a he). I haven't argued with him, but noticed petty and heavyhanded admin.

For example, there's a weird aversion to new threads on topics similar to those posted previously, so threads get mind-numbingly long.

Let's say you want to start a new thread on swimming, your message will get dumped into the 'Forest Hill Pool (Continued)' thread, which is currently running at 1,255 posts.

Any post asking for recommendations of local traders, restaurants etc gets dumped in the Trading Post section. The forum as a whole is dull and slow-moving, but Trading Post is a grave-yard, as the rule is you can only reply by private message.

Since there is a ban on any kind of discussion of the admin, lending a kind of North Korea feel to the place, I'm posting here and wondering if any other se23 folk want to comment.

Personally I feel lively forums like Sydenham Town Forum make a really valuable contribution to the community. I think it's a shame there isn't a better forum for your neighbours to the north.

mummycat · Post by **mummycat** » 5 Dec 2009 10:01

Annie · Post by **Annie** » 5 Dec 2009 10:27

Sydenham Town Forum is the best!

ALIB · Post by **ALIB** » 6 Dec 2009 08:27

I gave up on SE23 many months ago.

We are probaby both better off without each other.

CaptainCarCrash · Post by **CaptainCarCrash** » 6 Dec 2009 17:41

I am an ex edf___er and I really do despise some of the people who are the core group of posters more than any other place I have ever visited. 1 of the moderators really got to me for his sheer ego and arrogance and lack of customer service skills, he lives in the shadow of another mod who is caring and considerate and quite intelligent. I could have swung for the other mod thou' he made my blood boil and it got to the point I wanted to go looking for him which was really stupid in the cold light of day, but there are otherways you can get back at somebody who really upsets you but is spreading the word you dont like them a good idea? Not really, no. You clearly seem very aggitated by what went on over at se23 but take it from me you will only upset yourself in the end so you are better off just letting them get on with it, they are not worth bothering with.

I know for a fact that lessons were learned in my situation from all parties and as far as I am concerned thats fair enough. You have to just leave it really because if you are dealing with somebody really stubourn where could it all end? with you in prison with blood on your hands. well maybe not but who knows.

Just leave it alone mate. I reacted in the past so I know, dont give them the satisfaction all your doing is letting them know they got to you. Or am I wrong?

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 6 Dec 2009 18:12

Thanks for responses.

mikecg, by 'ex-edf__er' do you mean East Dulwich Forum? I don't know it well, but anyway I posted a similar message on East Dulwich forum and got similar feedback.

I'm wondering though, how hard is it, with limited IT skills, to set up a simplified version of Sydenham Town Talk? I certainly don't want to get in a fight with anyone, but I think poor old se23 deserves a better discussion board.

CaptainCarCrash · Post by **CaptainCarCrash** » 6 Dec 2009 18:18

I know where you are coming from and to start your own forum is as easy or as difficult as you want it to be. There are hosting software sites about that are free, give me a little while as my gorgeous wife has just cooked my Sunday Roast I can help you set up a really easy to use forum that is free.

I'll get back to you.

PS it was East Dulwich Forum everyones experience is different so dont judge by my take on it It's like going to the wrong pub I guess.

CaptainCarCrash · Post by **CaptainCarCrash** » 6 Dec 2009 18:50

This site in the following url allows you to set up a forum and is idiot proof (How do you think I know about it) but it works and is very easy to setup.

http://www.freeforums.org/

There are others out there who offer this service.

Otherwise you need to register a domain name and start from scratch which involves an advanced level of IT knowledge and involves using a dedicated server and a forum application which in themselves are relativly easy but you would need quite a lot of tech skills.

Forums = headaches and it could endup ruleing your life.

Give this a go and you may find that you like it and you may want to take on a more sophisticated solution where the bennefits give you full control. At least this will let you see how it works form a fundamental point of view and if you are serious you could even get some help from some people that have created forums before, there are lots of tec forums about the web for this kind of stuff.

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 6 Dec 2009 22:26

Thanks for that Mike, I may very well try it out. Looks like a good temporary solution to see if it flies.

CaptainCarCrash · Post by **CaptainCarCrash** » 6 Dec 2009 22:30

You're welcome.

Post by **admin** » 7 Dec 2009 12:06

Creating a forum is the easy bit. I don't know whether you read a previous post on the failure of an earlier attempt to set up a rival forum to SE23.COM?

The basic problem is that strict or non-strict moderation will only effect a very, very small number of posts. The success of a forum is based on people finding good up to date stuff that changes every time they visit. Most of it will be there despite the moderation. It really depends on a decently broad and reasonably congenial group of posters. In a typical forum these have grown slowly over time.

A new forum, by definition, will have very few posters and posts. It can't immediately compete for interest with an established forum good, bad or indifferent. It doesn't get the visits, hence more posts and hence the interest.

A classic chicken & egg problem. I'm not trying to put you off, just suggesting you think of how you could break that impasse. History says just being NOTSE23.COM is insufficient.

Admin

michael · Post by **michael** » 7 Dec 2009 16:11

I welcome three very different forums in the area (plus Brockley Central doing things differently again). But for me the key to any forum is not the way it is administered, but the discussion of the local area.

SE23.com is good for discussion of trains, swimming pools and religion. STF is perfect for historical interest. EDF has a much wider range of discussion, many more members, and have more politicians getting involved on a regular basis. Brockley Central is a much more guided discussion because it operates as a blog. And if I am allowed one criticism of STF, it is difficult to find threads in the many different areas (cafe, asylum, pub, etc)

There is also the Perry Vale forum, where you can see what a second forum in SE23 would look like (empty).

Sometimes the grass just looks greener on the other side of the post code boundary. Each one of these forums could be improved (some more than others) but none of them will ever please everybody.

Mummycat,
I don't think the answer is to stop advertising events in Mayow Park to the people of Forest Hill because you feel your freedom of speech is limited. Surely it is better to learn to post in the existing topic than to boycott the main online information source in SE23? - And I say this as somebody who carried on posting on Foresthillonline against my personal preference and despite continued personal attacks, until they gave up their competition with se23.com

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 7 Dec 2009 22:39

Admin, michael; thanks for the advice; much appreciated.

I searched and read up a bit. Why did ForestHillOnline forum fail? The website is still there, but no longer seems updated.

se23.com doesn’t actually seem to be rampantly popular either. I count seven posts today so far in two threads. There’s also a page soliciting advertising, but it doesn’t seem to have any current takers.

Sorry if this sounds mean. I would usually be the last to criticise anyone doing the community a service for free, but it seems to me se23.com has a record of putting people’s noses out of joint, and I have a sneaking suspicion getting a bit of a kick out of it.

The main complaints are not the strict rules, but pettiness and clumsy editorial. It’s also the only forum I’ve ever seen where there’s no feedback and discussion of admin policy.

Michael, I realise there’s a constituency for se23.com’s genteel pace, but clearly people aren’t learning to adapt to the odd style re existing topics. You have to admit it’s frustrating to put up an upcoming event to have it mangled and shoved to the back of a 700-post thread. And then get ignored or banned if you try to discuss with the moderator.

Admin, I realise you know the moderator and that se23.com was an inspiration for STF, so I’m grateful for your open and even-handed approach.

Maybe you could contact him and see whether he’d be willing to come on over to STF to respond to some constructive criticism. I promise I’ll be nice.

lambchops · Post by **lambchops** » 7 Dec 2009 23:15

it's admin's charisma...it's the STF glue!

CaptainCarCrash · Post by **CaptainCarCrash** » 7 Dec 2009 23:30

Laters to that exile, I could troll him back to the stone age he still wont listen the guy runs it his way and it's his site so let him carry it on. I've never posted on his site because he would annoy me really bad but I'm reformed now so I dont bother with places like that they are not worth it.

I dont do unpaid work either.

Is there going to be a board war? oh goody.

(Cum Grano Salis)

michael · Post by **michael** » 8 Dec 2009 00:02

Why did ForestHillOnline forum fail?

Because there was no demand for a second forum in Forest Hill and the administrators, having set it up purely to compete with SE23.com lacked the motivation to keep it free of spam and out of the 6 frequent posters I suspect that at least 2 were the same person, and I wasn't there out of choice. I've also noticed today that Perry Vale forum is currently closed.

Some days on SE23.com are quieter than other, particularly one of the busiest online shopping days before Christmas. But if you think it is genteel then you must have missed the discussion over the pools, jerk chicken, Jehovah's Witnesses, religion and evolution, and most posts by Nasaroc, Roz, Hilltopgeneral, and Brian. You probably also missed the legendary discussions between ToffeeJim and BaggyDave back in the days when SE23.com was young, free, abusive, and making enemies out of every shop in the area.

SE23.com is actually a lot more successful than you might give it credit for and regularly makes a big difference in public campaigns such as the Olympic badges for Horniman Museum (STF also helped of course).

As for long threads, I would prefer to have a single thread on a topic that goes on for a long time, than multiple threads where roughly the same discussion is taking place, often resulting in a series of monologues rather than a discussion. But everybody has their preferred way to use forums.

I'm not going to defend every way in which SE23.com is run, but just like STF it is run by somebody who spends quite a bit of effort keeping it going in his own way. If you think you have what it takes to set up and run a better forum, then why not do it?

But if you really think STF and EDF are so much better, how come you had not posted to either before you started these threads? It does suggest that, whatever criticism you may have of SE23.com, you have not spent much time on these other forums.

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 8 Dec 2009 00:13

But if you really think STF and EDF are so much better, how come you had not posted to either before you started these threads? It does suggest that, whatever criticism you may have of SE23.com, you have not spent much time on these other forums.

Because I don't live in either Sydenham or Dulwich.

I recently moved to se23, and after being initially pleased there was local forum, was sad to find it seems to be run by someone with apparently both poor editorial and social skills.

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 8 Dec 2009 00:24

Does anyone have a contact for Foresthillonline?

There are no contacts on the website, and I'd be interested in any perspective someone who was involved can provide.

CaptainCarCrash · Post by **CaptainCarCrash** » 8 Dec 2009 01:09

se23 exile wrote:
But if you really think STF and EDF are so much better, how come you had not posted to either before you started these threads? It does suggest that, whatever criticism you may have of SE23.com, you have not spent much time on these other forums.
Because I don't live in either Sydenham or Dulwich.

I recently moved to se23, and after being initially pleased there was local forum, was sad to find it seems to be run by someone with apparently both poor editorial and social skills.

A social cripple then, there you have settled it, I think it gives him his little bit of power like obnoxious bus drivers or arsey Police men.

Admins dont usually come to the negotiating table in my experience because they have to stand by they're decisions and egos. I'm not trying to inflame anything but I think you are flogging a dead horse, SE23.COM is too far gone, it's tough but you have to accept it.

se23 exile · Post by **se23 exile** » 8 Dec 2009 08:05

I'm not trying to inflame anything ...

I don't think we could accuse you of pouring oil on troubled waters though.