I have removed a thread on Lower Sydenham posted this evening. The original post, amongst other things, insulted people based on their ethnicity. This is unacceptable (illegal?) in our society. It contravenes STF posting rules.
The poster has been warned and will be excluded if any further abuse appears.
I had posted earlier today of my concern that the dark days and long nights appear to be leading to an increase in people giving and taking offence. This does nothing but drive people away. A bit of fun and leg pulling should be no problem. But not this.
Admin
Lower Sydenham (removed)
I've got the post you're referring to sitting in my RSS reader at the moment. While people in Lower Sydenham might well have taken offence to someone talking down their area, I can't see any racist language in there. I think it's a bit unfair on the post author to tell everyone that the post was removed due to ethnicity-based insults.
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digime2007
- Posts: 258
- Joined: 10 Sep 2007 18:26
- Location: Sydenhham
I have to say I was surprised at the locking of the Sugarhill thread Admin alludes to with his long dark nights of winter comment above.
The only vaguely confrontation comments in that thread came from the OP. ALIB did really well not to take offense. The rest of the comments were gentle teasing (at worst) and pretty generous given the nature of the original posts.
Also, as someone else mentioned on another thread there doesn't seem to be an even hand at work when judging what should and shouldn't be allowed to stand. Maybe Admin lets his personal acquaintances cloud his judgement - although, I admit, that's just speculation on my part.
I know it's not an easy job moderating forums like these but I find wholesale removal of threads and topic locking frustrating. That's the type of thing that is likely to drive me away.
I mean these comments constructively. Admin does a fine job here. Some aspects don't sit right with me though.
The only vaguely confrontation comments in that thread came from the OP. ALIB did really well not to take offense. The rest of the comments were gentle teasing (at worst) and pretty generous given the nature of the original posts.
Also, as someone else mentioned on another thread there doesn't seem to be an even hand at work when judging what should and shouldn't be allowed to stand. Maybe Admin lets his personal acquaintances cloud his judgement - although, I admit, that's just speculation on my part.
I know it's not an easy job moderating forums like these but I find wholesale removal of threads and topic locking frustrating. That's the type of thing that is likely to drive me away.
I mean these comments constructively. Admin does a fine job here. Some aspects don't sit right with me though.
Hi, I was one of the posters to reply to this original thread.
I think that we need some general guidelines that we can all agree to. Just general good manners would be a start, i.e if a word is spelt wrong, just ignore it, why be rude to someone who is aiming to (hopefully) improve SE26, if a persons grammar is wrong, ditto.
I feel that people are just waiting for a post to be made just so that they can then 'lead' an attack. Everyone is entiitled to opinions, just because yours differ, why be so rude.
Admin, I think that you should set up some guidelines that we all agree to.
I think that we need some general guidelines that we can all agree to. Just general good manners would be a start, i.e if a word is spelt wrong, just ignore it, why be rude to someone who is aiming to (hopefully) improve SE26, if a persons grammar is wrong, ditto.
I feel that people are just waiting for a post to be made just so that they can then 'lead' an attack. Everyone is entiitled to opinions, just because yours differ, why be so rude.
Admin, I think that you should set up some guidelines that we all agree to.
i think moderating a board is not an easy task, and is very much a learnt skill.
As a poster on several forums, equally posting is a learnt skill, but inevitably misinterpretations of 'tone' happen, and people take offence at one thing and another.
I am fairly thick-skinned and have met a lot of the posters on here in person. Disagreements disappear over a coffee or beer or two and we all ultimately want the same thing. An improving Sydenham.
On reflection, i think my words on the Sugahill thread were probably not the best chosen ones, considering how new the posters were to STF. I think i have become a bit dissmissive of posters who introduce themselves to the Forum with a glowing reference to a business.
This is probably a result of spamming. Anyone remember Cameraguy? I think that was the best example of a spammer being made to look very foolish.
Anyhow, my apologies to the original poster of the Sugahill thread, but i think it worth noting that i didn't use personal attacks , such as 'confrontational jerk', though i have been called much worse.
Michael Winner puts it best, "Calm down Dear...it's only a Forum"
Ali B
As a poster on several forums, equally posting is a learnt skill, but inevitably misinterpretations of 'tone' happen, and people take offence at one thing and another.
I am fairly thick-skinned and have met a lot of the posters on here in person. Disagreements disappear over a coffee or beer or two and we all ultimately want the same thing. An improving Sydenham.
On reflection, i think my words on the Sugahill thread were probably not the best chosen ones, considering how new the posters were to STF. I think i have become a bit dissmissive of posters who introduce themselves to the Forum with a glowing reference to a business.
This is probably a result of spamming. Anyone remember Cameraguy? I think that was the best example of a spammer being made to look very foolish.
Anyhow, my apologies to the original poster of the Sugahill thread, but i think it worth noting that i didn't use personal attacks , such as 'confrontational jerk', though i have been called much worse.
Michael Winner puts it best, "Calm down Dear...it's only a Forum"
Ali B
Great line Ali. I agree with you that moderating a forum isn't easy.
My interest in posting on this site is for one reason only. I want to help change and improve SE26 and I want to communicate with people who share this view or want to discuss planning, transport, road improvements issues etc.
I only post in the Town Forum section - this is first time I've even looked at Town Cafe never mind posted here! I take seriously the tag attached on The Town Forum - "The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham".
Town Forum only thrives if it is fed with reliable authoritative info and doesn't fill up with gossip and personal attack. Most people I know locally who have this type of information have long since given up on STF - and recently I've thought seriously about doing the same thing myself. This section of STF is a mere shadow of what it was a few years ago. It requires severe moderation if it is to recover.
If you want to see what a moderated site can be like - look at Virtual Norwood - News and Views. Here, anyone who abuses or is not following the discussion of the thread has their "contribution" removed. There are postings from a number of local councillors and a section from the local train manager - people whose views you may not like but who can provide you with valuable input. These people post because they know they are no going to be abused. On Town Forum people offering info like this are "torn to shreds" as soon as they start, so they simply don't bother. Or they post totally anodyne or "information only" contributions.
You also need to restrict individuals who are clearly addicted to STF and post up to 12 times per day with nothing to say on Town Forum except "here I am - look at me".
Let me say clearly that I am perfectly happy with "social chit-chat" - as long as it remains in Cafe or Asylum. Bring it on to Town Hall and you wreck the whole flow of vital info about our community that we all want to hear.
If STF continues in this vein, I will join the dozens of others locally who have simply given up on the site and I too will not post here any longer. Recently I've posted more often on SE23 which IS properly moderated and where views and information can be shared without abuse and chit chat.
Barry Milton
My interest in posting on this site is for one reason only. I want to help change and improve SE26 and I want to communicate with people who share this view or want to discuss planning, transport, road improvements issues etc.
I only post in the Town Forum section - this is first time I've even looked at Town Cafe never mind posted here! I take seriously the tag attached on The Town Forum - "The place for serious discussion, announcements and breaking news about Sydenham".
Town Forum only thrives if it is fed with reliable authoritative info and doesn't fill up with gossip and personal attack. Most people I know locally who have this type of information have long since given up on STF - and recently I've thought seriously about doing the same thing myself. This section of STF is a mere shadow of what it was a few years ago. It requires severe moderation if it is to recover.
If you want to see what a moderated site can be like - look at Virtual Norwood - News and Views. Here, anyone who abuses or is not following the discussion of the thread has their "contribution" removed. There are postings from a number of local councillors and a section from the local train manager - people whose views you may not like but who can provide you with valuable input. These people post because they know they are no going to be abused. On Town Forum people offering info like this are "torn to shreds" as soon as they start, so they simply don't bother. Or they post totally anodyne or "information only" contributions.
You also need to restrict individuals who are clearly addicted to STF and post up to 12 times per day with nothing to say on Town Forum except "here I am - look at me".
Let me say clearly that I am perfectly happy with "social chit-chat" - as long as it remains in Cafe or Asylum. Bring it on to Town Hall and you wreck the whole flow of vital info about our community that we all want to hear.
If STF continues in this vein, I will join the dozens of others locally who have simply given up on the site and I too will not post here any longer. Recently I've posted more often on SE23 which IS properly moderated and where views and information can be shared without abuse and chit chat.
Barry Milton
As you have criticised the admin and, implicitly, users of this site Barry then perhaps you could provide examples of unacceptable behaviour. I'm a little bamboozled to be honest; I've seen lots of people have hissy fits and take great offence but I'm not entirely sure where this unacceptable behaviour is. I've not really seen or encountered it. If that is because it has been removed then I would imagine that the admin is doing a sterling job as (considering I check the forum a few times a day) he's managed to get it removed before I can see it.
The only problem I can see - and it's not a problem unique to this website: I find it one lots of internet forums - is that people consistently fail to respond in a measured, logical and point-by-point fashion to arguments presented to them. (and sometimes take offence when other people's views or points do not fit in with their view of the world or with the status quo).
Take, for example, times when I've been criticised....(to which I don't take offence I might add): I was harangued when I pointed out that street drinkers can't be "banned" from drinking in public (and shouldn't be) within existing legislation. (that's true) - the whole response to this point was to say "yes they can! - let's ban them!" rather than actually respond the points in question. Or, when a thread started recently "police vs security guards", I took the trouble to rebut point-by-point the arguments in the preceding post and explain the situation the following posts neither acknowledge these points nor challenge them they rather continue in the same vein of ignorant dissatisfaction....
Personal insults aren't nice - certainly - but occasionally you do get something so moronic posted that it's hard not to treat the ideas with contempt. Hopefully, I (personally) try to and achieve a balance of measured scorn and informed posting. And additionally: I do think a sense of humour is important when venturing onto the interweb, even when discussing serious topics, you'd go mad without one.
I too want to improve Sydenham. I do use this website as a very useful source of information and I do think some posters here would be a great loss if they were to leave (I'm thinking of you Barry). But I do fail to see where these great sea of discontent has swelled up from....
Anyone fancy discussing it over a Christmas pint?
The only problem I can see - and it's not a problem unique to this website: I find it one lots of internet forums - is that people consistently fail to respond in a measured, logical and point-by-point fashion to arguments presented to them. (and sometimes take offence when other people's views or points do not fit in with their view of the world or with the status quo).
Take, for example, times when I've been criticised....(to which I don't take offence I might add): I was harangued when I pointed out that street drinkers can't be "banned" from drinking in public (and shouldn't be) within existing legislation. (that's true) - the whole response to this point was to say "yes they can! - let's ban them!" rather than actually respond the points in question. Or, when a thread started recently "police vs security guards", I took the trouble to rebut point-by-point the arguments in the preceding post and explain the situation the following posts neither acknowledge these points nor challenge them they rather continue in the same vein of ignorant dissatisfaction....
Personal insults aren't nice - certainly - but occasionally you do get something so moronic posted that it's hard not to treat the ideas with contempt. Hopefully, I (personally) try to and achieve a balance of measured scorn and informed posting. And additionally: I do think a sense of humour is important when venturing onto the interweb, even when discussing serious topics, you'd go mad without one.
I too want to improve Sydenham. I do use this website as a very useful source of information and I do think some posters here would be a great loss if they were to leave (I'm thinking of you Barry). But I do fail to see where these great sea of discontent has swelled up from....
Anyone fancy discussing it over a Christmas pint?
nasaroc wrote:
I only post in the Town Forum section - this is first time I've even looked at Town Cafe never mind posted here!
It therefore struck me as rather a coincidence that you would have spotted this particular thread, a quick view of your posting history shows you have posted in here many times (and they're not on threads that have been shifted from the Town Hall either!).
Admin: As Nasaroc expressed concern about moderation in Town Hall last week I referred him to this thread. You were not to know that Maestro
I use this as an example of a poster who can't even agree with himself. Ibere requests Admin to "set up guidelines we all agree to". There's little chance we could agree on much of anything, methinks. Admin indeed has a difficult task to perform, and gets quite enough stick from people, one poster even accusing him of terminating someone's account when he clearly hadn't ('sirens' thread), and I note they haven't even apologised.
I think the general balance of this forum is fine just as it is. If people choose to threaten and bully with "I too will not post here any longer!" comments, then just let them go, I have the same opinion with RBS bankers.
I think the forum is fine, if people don't like it they can leave it.
This year it got the most people online ever, so I think that proves it is thriving.
Personally, sometimes I like to post some serious stuff but other times I just like to come on here and wind people up – sometimes both at the same time!
Long Live STF!
This year it got the most people online ever, so I think that proves it is thriving.
Personally, sometimes I like to post some serious stuff but other times I just like to come on here and wind people up – sometimes both at the same time!
Long Live STF!
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
Agree with Juwlz.
Falkor posted on the Se23 site and no-one bothered posting. He came back. I've enjoyed meeting the people behind the names in real life on this forum. It's made me feel like part of a community. It's helped local campaigns. It's informative. It's helped local business (if only more would use it). It helped with the Arts festival.
I think this is a valuable local asset.
Falkor posted on the Se23 site and no-one bothered posting. He came back. I've enjoyed meeting the people behind the names in real life on this forum. It's made me feel like part of a community. It's helped local campaigns. It's informative. It's helped local business (if only more would use it). It helped with the Arts festival.
I think this is a valuable local asset.
where are people being belittled?lbere wrote:Ok, then I leave.
Really do not feel happy using this forum if it allows people to be belittled.
I'm really confused....(not just by your post above) by where these offensive posts actually are. See my post above.
Can someone, please, give some examples...?
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Trawlerman
- Posts: 318
- Joined: 17 Sep 2009 13:56
- Location: Sydenham
Lower Sydenham removed
As a fairly new member, I generally find the Forum very informative and enjoyable including the banter.
We should all try not to take life too seriously sometimes !
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We should all try not to take life too seriously sometimes !
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I'm a newbie and didn't understand what was happening when I posted my thread on Sugahill. A string of sarcastic remarks came flooding back from a certain group. I felt like the new kid on the block who had to prove myself. This was a form of bullying, even though it was put over in the guise of gentle ribbing. I do however apologise if I offended anyone with my retorts. By the way, I have no idea who the person was who posted straight after me, which seems to have contributed to the kerfuffle. It only added to my confusion! 