Oystercard PAYG starts in January

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 24 Nov 2009 09:33

Great to see that Oystercard PAYG has finally been confirmed to start on all suburban metropolitan lines - including local stations such as Sydenham, Penge East and Sydenham Hill - on January 2 2010.

TfL has issued a map showing the area be covered by Oystercard from January.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/ ... n-2010.pdf

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 24 Nov 2009 12:00

I was rather pleasantly surprised to read in the ES that the rail companies are actually going to be dropping fares for Oyster users..... Good news.

nomie44 · Post by **nomie44** » 24 Nov 2009 12:18

Are they really going to be that much cheaper? All the prices I've seen have quoted a single fare compared with an oyster single, but surely a lot of people buy returns or travelcards that work out much cheaper than two singles.

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 24 Nov 2009 12:26

to be hoenst, I havn't really had a good look on the effects on prices with regards to singles/returns/travelcards/season tickets and so on..... I was cynical about fares being "cheaper" with oyster..... I didn't think oyster would make much of a difference.

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 24 Nov 2009 13:39

Yes - Oyster PAYG fares will be cheaper than paying by cash.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/ ... -fares.pdf

Please note that this is for PAYG and does not include season tickets (which are already highly discounted).

Chazza · Post by **Chazza** » 24 Nov 2009 14:28

There's something I can't quite work out from all the bumph on TfL's website: will Oyster PAYG daily price caps apply to journeys made from National Rail stations such as Sydenham?

For example, on some Saturdays, I make the following journeys:

- Sydenham station (zone 3) to London Bridge (zone 1).
- Many tube and bus journeys within zones 1, 2 & 3.
- London Bridge to Sydenham station.

I have spent the whole day in zones 1, 2 and 3. Will I pay:

1) £5.80 for the day (the Oyster off-peak price cap fare for zone 1-3)

2) £9.80 for the day, made up of:
- the single Oyster PAYG fare from Sydenham to London Bridge @ £2
- the price cap fare for all my tube journeys @ £5.80
- another single Oyster PAYG fare from London Bridge to Sydenham @ £2
...in which case I'd be better off buying a paper 1-day travel card.

I've tried to find the answer to this question on the TfL website, to no avail.

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 24 Nov 2009 14:44

Chazza - If you read the detailed press release put out yesterday by TfL (see bottom) you will see that the Oyster Card capping for a days travel will be assessed thus:

"Daily Price Capping
Daily Price Capping with Oyster pay as you go, ensures that passengers who make multiple journeys on public transport in a day in London will never be charged more than the price of the equivalent Day Travelcard or One Day Bus Pass."

So the maximum you will pay is the price of a daily travelcard. So no need to purchase a separate Travelcard - you are going to be charged exactly the same using your Oystercard.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/ ... -fares.pdf

Gaz · Post by **Gaz** » 24 Nov 2009 15:24

I was reading some feedback comments on news sites that there is a complication with those who have a Season Ticket Oyster card.

They were basically saying that if you wanted to travel outside of your nominated zones you had to queue to buy an Oyster Extension Ticket (or somesuch) as you would no longer be able to use the Oyster PAYG loaded onto the same card to top-up travels outside of your boundary zones?

Anyone else heard this or can clarify?

DaveT · Post by **DaveT** » 24 Nov 2009 15:29

I too have seen the advertising in the Metro et al, but for the life of me can not see the east london line on there..

I thought I could read maps.....

nasaroc · Post by **nasaroc** » 24 Nov 2009 16:30

Those people who have a Season Ticket Oystercard which does not cover certain zones on the tube will, of course, have to "top it up" or use a PAYG Oystercard.

For example, many people travelling from Sydenham have a rail only season ticket. If you want to travel on the tube you have, hardly suprisingly, to pay extra. Your zone one rail only card doesn't cover the underground.

For this reason people travelling to LB via the ELL will need PAYG Oystercard - or a season ticket with tube access.

DaveT - surely the reason that the ELL does not appear on any printed maps )including the new Oystercard map above) is because it hasn't started running! I'm always expecting to see it myself when I look at maps. It would be wrong of the authorities to include it until May.

Blushingsnail · Post by **Blushingsnail** » 24 Nov 2009 18:33

Gaz: the London Reconnections site explains about the 'Oyster Extension Permits' (which only applies to travelcard holders, not PAYG):

"From the 2nd of January, if you have a season ticket on your Oyster Card, you will need to charge it with an “Oyster Extension Permit” if you wish to make a journey via National Rail services that will take you outside your paid-for zones. In this context, “National Rail” effectively means “non-TfL” - so no OEP is required for travel on the Overground."

According to the rest of the article OEPs are free but only available from places that do Oyster top-ups (which will be OK at our stations now that they're TfL). You can only have one OEP at a time on your Oyster card and it is used up after one journey, so you need to get one each time you make a journey outside your zones on Network Rail (but not for the return journey, for some complicated reason to do with ticket gates). However there's no time limit to use an OEP so you can get one well in advance of your journey. If you don't have an OEP you'll be liable for a penalty fare.

Not sure of the implications for us: we'll be OK on ELL services, but what about using Southern trains towards Croydon? If you go to West Croydon on ELL you won't need an OEP, but if you go to East Croydon via Southern you will? And is it the service or the destination station that determines the need for an OEP? Eg Norwood Junction is a TfL station but will be served by both ELL and Southern - would you need an OEP if you used a Southern service to Norwood Junction, but not if you used an ELL service? (Of course in that scenario you'd only be found out if stopped by a ticket inspector, which is unlikely, but I'd still like to know if I'd be liable for a penalty fare.)

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 24 Nov 2009 20:27

I'm not really sure what the above means......

does it mean that if you have a month's zone 1-3 travelcard on your oyster you can't just bung an extra 20quid on it for use when you feel like popping out to croydon "as and when"?

Chazza · Post by **Chazza** » 25 Nov 2009 11:37

nasaroc wrote:Chazza - If you read the detailed press release put out yesterday by TfL (see bottom) you will see that the Oyster Card capping for a days travel will be assessed thus:

"Daily Price Capping
Daily Price Capping with Oyster pay as you go, ensures that passengers who make multiple journeys on public transport in a day in London will never be charged more than the price of the equivalent Day Travelcard or One Day Bus Pass."

Thanks - I understand the concept of price capping as I used to use it all the time when I lived in Brixton. What's not clear on the TfL website is whether or not it will also work on National Rail services.

chrisj1948 · Post by **chrisj1948** » 25 Nov 2009 13:19

What's not clear on the TfL website is whether or not it will also work on National Rail services.

The sample pdf, whose link was posted by Nasaroc, indicates that it does.

Regards
Chris

Weeble · Post by **Weeble** » 25 Nov 2009 13:36

Can anyone confirm whether this means that National Rail stations will start selling Oystercards, and whether it will be possible to load an oystercard with a rail-only season ticket?

After having a nightmare to get my annual rail-only season ticket replaced after it was stolen days after it was issued, I'd really like to have an oystercard (which can be cancelled and replaced without fuss).

Also - does anyone know what will happen to rail-only tickets once the ELL starts? Any chance I can 'upgrade' a rail-only ticket to full Z1-3 travelcard once the ELL starts??

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 25 Nov 2009 13:51

Weeble wrote:
After having a nightmare to get my annual rail-only season ticket replaced after it was stolen days after it was issued, I'd really like to have an oystercard (which can be cancelled and replaced without fuss).

I cannot imagine why anyone would choose the paper ST over an Oyster ST going forward Weeble. The paper ones seem to degrade so quickly...even if by some miracle the reader still registers the card after about 6months the expiry date has all but rubbed off! This can prove tricky. I went for an Oyster ST with my paper Gold Card (for the 3rd off) as soon as I could.

One memorable year I had my briefcase stolen in North London (figures) and proceeded to lose my replacement...all my fault I know but when you factored in buying weeklies, chasing up the replacement, 2 crime reports and the hassle of claiming back duplicate tickets (seperate form per ticket!). I'd imagine Bin Laden would find it an easier process to get a U.S. Visa!

Chazza · Post by **Chazza** » 25 Nov 2009 14:18

chrisj1948 wrote:The sample pdf, whose link was posted by Nasaroc, indicates that it does.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up Chris. I think TfL need to update their website:

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/oysteronline/9261.aspx wrote:Daily price capping is the most you will be charged a day when you use Oyster to pay as you go on bus, Tube, tram, DLR, London Overground and some National Rail services.

Weeble · Post by **Weeble** » 25 Nov 2009 14:46

Ulysses wrote:I cannot imagine why anyone would choose the paper ST over an Oyster ST going forward Weeble

I only get one now because I get a rail-only season ticket, which I think (correct me if I'm wrong) have not been available on Oyster, because they're only available from the rail operators who only issue paper tickets.

I've experienced similar frustration trying to get a replacement ticket myself. Given my season ticket was stolen only a few days after it was issued, this aroused suspicion and I had to have a formal interview to get a replacement - a right old interogation it was too - a 20 minute grilling with questions like "can you describe to me your movements leading up to the moment of the crime?". Having been told in no uncertain terms that they weren't obliged to give me a replacement and suggesting they'd take a dim view should it happen again, I've been very paranoid about losing it!

Ulysses · Post by **Ulysses** » 25 Nov 2009 16:08

Sorry Weeble. Yeah, that rings true. A 'rail only' ticket has, to date, only been available on paper tickets. I do hope that will change in the future - can anyone confirm that it will?

I mercifully never got interrogated like that but still the whole process had an air of "It's your blooming fault you got your bag stolen!"...

A close friend got mugged in North London (bit of a recurring theme here!). The mugging was fairly violent and harrowing yet did it spare her the indignity of having to basically beg for a replacement as she had already had one replacement that year...you guessed it.

I know they are expensive things and we should treat them as if we were carrying over £1000 in cash but still. Things do get mislaid/stolen/break!?

Weeble · Post by **Weeble** » 25 Nov 2009 18:28

That's just it - there's no way I'd carry round £1000 in cash all day every day, then remove it from my wallet four times a day in a crowded environment and feed it through a ticket gate!

If the best the rail companies can do is offer you is a fragile scrap of card for the privledge of accessing their services, they shouldn't be so surprised when they get lost and stolen!

Fingers crossed they start issuing season tickets on oyster soon...

On the plus side, I've found one benefit of holding a paper ticket from one of the TOCs is that South West trains (not Southern though) give you a number of free passes for weekend travel on their network if you're a gold card holder. I think you normally get six a year but for some reason they've sent me a dozen this year - we've had some free trips to the New Forest and the coast which have probably saved us £100 or so. For this reason I buy my season ticket at Waterloo rather than in Sydenham.

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