Proposed mosaic outside the Naborhood Centre

Chazza · Post by **Chazza** » 17 Jun 2009 13:57

I agree with Adrian. What's the point of spending money on artwork when the rest of the building is so poorly maintained? Lee's "what if" on the building shows what a lick of paint, a simple sign and some new curtains could do for its appearance. Spending money on a mosaic would be akin to setting a diamond into a dog turd.

poppy · Post by **poppy** » 17 Jun 2009 20:19

Like I said on another related thread. We need to let others at the council etc know that we think this is a waste of money...to try and stop it.

Rebelmc · Post by **Rebelmc** » 17 Jun 2009 23:42

poppy wrote:Like I said on another related thread. We need to let others at the council etc know that we think this is a waste of money...to try and stop it.

It's probably too late for that now, votes have been cast, decisions have been made; the only hope there is of this project not progressing, is that it doesn't get the matched funding that it is relying on, although I would be interested to know what would then happen to the money that they have been awarded.

Ultimately, where were all the naysayers at the Assembly meeting?

The meeting was given enough advance publicity on this forum, and the mosaic project have done nothing wrong; all they did was apply for a sum of money that was available to anyone with an idea.

I have an issue with the fact that (it seemed clear to me) the project was being supported by people with a hidden agenda, but if enough of the folk who are getting indignant about it now had turned up on the night and voted against it, we wouldn't be talking about it now.

The moral of the tale is, if you really care about what goes on in your community, pay attention to what's happening and exercise your vote when it counts, not after the event.

Post by **admin** » 17 Jun 2009 23:54

Rebelmc,

Well only if people know about this. Once again Lewisham failed to deliver notification of the Assembly to our street. Secondly if you do other things for Sydenham you can't make every meeting - and this does seem to have sprung upon us (not mentioned at the previous meeting) and no time for reflection.

I feel disenfranchised from choosing how we spend our money and have had no chance to consider whether this is a good or bad thing. I don't like being 'bounced' into decisions like this. Considering the reaction here I am not alone.

I think I'll make my view known to Cllr Best and request it be brought back for further consideration. One view should not be enough to alter Chris's or Lewisham's mind. But a lot should.

Anybody with me?

Admin

Robin Orton · Post by **Robin Orton** » 18 Jun 2009 07:21

Rebelmc wrote:

I have an issue with the fact that (it seemed clear to me) the project was being supported by people with a hidden agenda...

Could you clarify this please, Rebelmc? What do you think the 'hidden agenda' was?

Chazza · Post by **Chazza** » 18 Jun 2009 08:13

admin wrote:Once again Lewisham failed to deliver notification of the Assembly to our street.

Same here. I'm also on the forum almost every day and didn't spot the date. Admin, is there a calendar of events on here, or could you perhaps send email notifications to interested forum users when important meetings are imminent?

admin wrote:I think I'll make my view known to Cllr Best and request it be brought back for further consideration. One view should not be enough to alter Chris's or Lewisham's mind. But a lot should.

Anybody with me?

Yes, I am. Is an email to him sufficient, or do I need to pick up the phone?

mummycat · Post by **mummycat** » 18 Jun 2009 08:38

This is Chris Best's website - please let her know your views, she is here to help us: http://www.chrisbest.labour.co.uk/

Quite right, RebelMC - if you don't agree with something then you should use your vote to make it known. How many of the population are against BNP representation within the European Parliament but how many of us actually turned up to vote against them on 4th June?

The next assembly is 3rd Spetember and the one after that 3rd December (venue to be confirmed). You can find out more information on Lewisham's website:
http://www.lewisham.gov.uk/..../SydenhamAssembly/

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 18 Jun 2009 08:38

I'm with you.

If they haven't started work, then it doesn't have to go ahead.

Adrian is 100% right, there is already an artwork on the side of the Nabourhood centre.

The nabourhood centre should be done up first including painting, fixing the canopy and the window blinds.

Is this the right place for a mosaic? I don't think so.

parklife · Post by **parklife** » 18 Jun 2009 10:41

I agree with admin and leenewham

Chazza · Post by **Chazza** » 18 Jun 2009 11:16

mummycat wrote:This is Chris Best's website - please let her know your views, she is here to help us: http://www.chrisbest.labour.co.uk/

I've sent her an email.

poppy · Post by **poppy** » 18 Jun 2009 19:25

I don't think emailing her is enough, personally. I think the others should know. I have emailed her about stuff and have tended to get a stock response. She has probably been trying to sell this idea to her colleagues so maybe reluctant to back track now.

I also think having these meetings at 7pm on a weekday does not suit a lot of people. Many people do not get home from work until that time or later. And if you have young kids you might just be getting them off to bed and are absolutely knackered.

A Saturday afternoon or evening would be much better. The first meeting about doing up the high street was on a Saturday at the Naborhood centre and it was really well attended!!!! By young, middle aged and old!!!

Rebelmc · Post by **Rebelmc** » 19 Jun 2009 00:53

Robin Orton wrote:Rebelmc wrote:

I have an issue with the fact that (it seemed clear to me) the project was being supported by people with a hidden agenda...
Could you clarify this please, Rebelmc? What do you think the 'hidden agenda' was?

I published my thoughts earlier in this thread but, just for you, I will expand..........

During the first meeting to decide how the Mayor's fund was to be distributed, each project was given a fixed time limit (I believe it was 5 minutes, with a further couple of minutes to answer any questions) to put forward their case; during this meeting, if any prospectus was overrunning, much pointing at watches and interjecting by organisers was apparent.

In the second meeting, the same rules applied, 5 minutes to put forward a case, a couple of minutes to answer any questions.

In the event, first to put forward their case was a brand new, never before heard of project (asking for substantially more money than any other project, in fact, more than three times the amount of money asked by most of them) that promised to do up a building which is known to be a public eyesore, owned by LBC.

The proposer enjoyed much more than 5 minutes of proposal (closer to 15 minutes) with no intervention from the organisers, and the only worthwhile question asked ("why can't they just ask for less money, so everyone can have a share") being answered, very forceably, not by the proposer, but by Chris Best.

Then, after two "failed" votes (which knocked out the mosaic the first time, but put them back in the running the second time) Cllr Best insisted on a show of hands to decide if there should be a third vote.

At this stage, let's go back to the decision that allowed the mosaic to be put forward to the public vote in the first place, and then let's look at the method that the Assembly Commitee chose to decide who would get the money; the method was, the least preferred project would be knocked out, except, because of the amount of money the mosaic was asking for, unless they finished stone last (which they did in the first vote) at least two projects would have to fall by the wayside, if the mosaic was to get the money they'd asked for.

So now, I'm asking myself some questions:

1/ Why was the method of how the money was allocated changed (from 51%+ of the voting, to a preferencial vote) between the first meeting and the second?

The only answer I can conclude is, they realised they'd made a mistake the first time.

2/ Why was the method of voting changed from a tick box postcard to a wireless keypad, a method which is universally known to be unreliable. (made even less credible by the decision to call for a show of hands on the decision as to whether, or not, to take a third vote)?

This time, the only reason I can conclude is, an opportunity was identified to keep the voting going as long as possible, until the desired result was achieved.

Why would this be?

There are two reasons I can think of; the first I'm not preparred to publish, but the second (and most likely) is, the mosaic is a perfect opportunity for LBC to make major improvements to a building they know they have a problem with, and it won't cost them a penny, assuming the voting went the right way.

Robin Orton · Post by **Robin Orton** » 19 Jun 2009 07:33

Thanks for that full (if tantalizing!) response, Rebelmc. I totally accept that the voting procedures at the ward assembly meeting were unsatisfactory, to put it mildly.

iLOVEsydenham · Post by **iLOVEsydenham** » 19 Jun 2009 11:44

I am a local resident and architect and read the thread about the proposed mosaic to Nabourhood Centre with much interest.

I am in principal not against the idea of public art or spending a little money to make an area more pleasing. Public art however, if it is to be truly public and 'owned' by the public needs to have input by the public. Surely? So, has any consultation on this public art occurred? What does this mosaic look like. The link supplied just shows generic images of mosaic work.

There is also little point in applying public art to a building that is so under maintained and in such a serious need of refurbishment. Perhaps the council can spend the money more wisely on upgrading this area to become the true focus of the high street.

Gaudi's use of mosaic is entirely appropriate for the organic and non-linear forms that he uses in Parc Guell. The Nabourhood Centre is the exact opposite in architectural terms and I wonder if mosaic is appropriate at all.......

Wispy Wonder · Post by **Wispy Wonder** » 25 Jun 2009 12:41

Maybe if they site the mosaic nearer pavement level it could double as a urinal for the ever-present vagrants and drunks that loiter outside.

Surely the point of art is to enjoy it. Who on earth is going to appreciate the mosaic, however good it is, in such a dire setting and on such a drab building?

What a waste of money!

W. Wonder

The Clown · Post by **The Clown** » 23 Feb 2010 13:47

**Bump**

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 23 Feb 2010 14:16

Yep, it's back.

It has £20 grand of funding so far. £10,000 from an anonymous source and £10,000 from the taxpayer according to Lewisham Life. £30,000 to go.

You can see the designs for it this weekend at the Naborhood centre I believe. I hope my fears are proved wrong and I'm made to eat my words!

mummycat · Post by **mummycat** » 23 Feb 2010 14:23

Lee, not only can you see the designs, you will be able to meet and speak to the Artist, Oliver Budd.

There will be a chance to create your very own mosaic tile using Italian glass - everyone is welcome, any age, any ability & it's free!

Friday 26th Feb at the Here for Good Centre 1pm - 4pm
Saturday 27th Feb at the Naborhood Centre 10:30am - 3:30pm

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Proposed mosaic outside the Naborhood Centre