No East Croydon/Sydenham/London Bridge rail service as of September?

[alywin]

Really? Does anyone know anything about this?

https://www.pengematters.org.uk/Save-Our-Trains

Seems they're going to reinstate the London Bridge-Crystal Palace-Victoria loop, but nothing down to East Croydon? What will happen on Sundays? Will the loop run then, for the first time, or do we lose all our trains entirely?

[TeaAndCake]

Good luck to anyone trying to get onto an Overground train during rush hour, it's already standing room only the London Bridge trains (and that's during the summer), if they scrap all but 2 an hour it'll be carnage.

Is there a rail regulator in this country? How can they get away with removing a whole line??

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel- ... timetables

[Parker1970]

I read this on Facebook last week. It's great the loop is back, but no service to East Croydon is ridiculous considering its the hub to Gatwick and the coast. Changing at Norwood Junction is not much of a hassle but its just another connection and another wait if you are going further on... Train to NJ... wait... train to East Croydon... wait.... Urgh.

[alywin]

I quite agree. Even if the interchanges are all on the same platform (and I bet that won't always be the case if there are disruptions), as you say it's just another change to be made to get to the East Croydon hub. If you go to West Croydon, it's then an additional fare to get back to East Croydon on the tram. This is as bad as (or even worse than) the rush-hour service they brought in pre-pandemic.

[TeaAndCake]

As much as going out of town will be an issue, I think the main problem is the capacity into town. They are halving the number of rush hour trains, which are already packed even in the summer when some people are on holiday. Keep in mind these are already down from the number of trains we had pre-covid. Half of those people will need to use the Overground which is going to massively add to the overcrowding of Canada Water interchange. That assumes people can get on the train. For stations between Sydenham and Norwood Junction the Overground train will be the only option, so those Overground trains coming from West Croydon are going to be full by the time they reach Sydenham.

[squashst]

I went to a Zoom with Vicky Foxcroft and Southern back in March (I think) there is a follow on in September 14/9 which I can't go to as am on hols.

Vicky's office has provided an update from Southern:
"We are planning a change to Southern services from Sunday 4th September.
What this means from the Brockley and Honor Oak Park perspective is that the current all-stations London Bridge to East Croydon via Sydenham service will not run, and in its place, the London Bridge to London Victoria service via Sydenham will run.

At a practical level, this will mean more capacity into London Bridge (8/10 carriages vs the current 5). The “clockface” times will also change slightly – e.g. Brockley’s current XX:18, XX:48 pattern past the hour to London Bridge will become XX:03, XX:33 past the hour. It also means the return of direct journeys towards West Norwood, Clapham, London Victoria and similar. It also means more capacity into Victoria for stations such as Gipsy Hill and direct journeys to London Bridge – but appreciate that element is not relevant to the constituency.

However, it does mean that the journey to East Croydon will now be indirect, with a change at Norwood Junction. To reduce the effect, we will be stopping Caterham fast services at Norwood Junction and on the same platform as the London Overground service for most of the day – so for example, a journey from Brockley at circa 10:30, involves catching the 10:32 London Overground departure, arriving at Norwood Junction on platform 5 at 10:48, then at 10:52 from the same platform, the Caterham service provides the connection to East Croydon. This set up has also been designed for the return journey, with both services using platform 1 at Norwood.’"

Longer carriage trains are something I guess, and same platform changes at NJ is better than having to use the subway. But 2 trains/hr is inadequate especially if a train is cancelled.

My own feeling is that Southern prefer the longer routes as opposed to the short distance trundlers - higher fairs. I fear that as the view is from them "you've got the Overground" and so our Southern route gets cut frequently. Perhaps the shorter Southern routes might be better in London Transport - but have they the money to take this on? Its not overly cheering I'm afraid.

[alywin]

Thanks for the information, squashst (what an appropriate name in the circumstances!). I don't know when they truncated the service to East Croydon anyway (was it during the pandemic?), because it used to run farther beyond that (I never could keep track of whether it was the Caterham train, the Sutton train or what!), but I wonder if there's any reason they couldn't go back to running it longer distance again?

[perryman]

I've read that there are only 3 lines connecting east croydon and norwood junction - the fast up and down to/from london bridge and 1 spare line, like a hard shoulder perhaps.
This means our local services have to take up slots on the fast line.
It seems pretty daft to me, but it has been this way for 40 years, and hasn't been a problem before as there have always been sufficient gaps.

With the upgrade to london bridge and thameslink, EC to norwood junction is now seen as the major bottle neck for their fast services and the easy solution is to choke the competing local services, probably to none at some point.
Lovely.

If they don't want local passengers clogging up their lines, the transport planners should extended the tram service from EC to Sydenham, FH, etc down to London Bridge - that should create a jam free reliable service to our nearest hub. A spur to Lewisham would also be sensible.
Spoke and hub. It is a very basic transport concept, that seems totally beyond them.

[alywin]

Petition to reinstate London Bridge - East Croydon:
https://www.change.org/p/reinstate-the- ... don-bridge?

[squashst]

Sincere best wishes for the petition.

I think the fundamental probem is that 2 trains per hour is not enough on the Southern route,, it needs to go back to 4 trains perhour (2 Victoria, 2 East Croydon). But little sign of this - it seems to be the case of you have got the Overground (which admittedly has been useful on some strike days), like it or lump it.

As I live in Honor Oak, I can get the train to London Bridge, then out to Gatwick - not ideal, but OK. Appreciate that option is not open if you are at Anerley / Penge West.

Can't help feeling that Southern would prefer not to operate relatively short journey trains - I can see them in London Transport/Overground one day (not this side of an election though).