They still do it though by using a coke or fanta can full of lager or other spirit so you can't stop it.
"Gentrification of Sydenham"???? bit late for that, it was like it up to the 50's but downhill from then on. Just somewhere to drive - I mean crawl - through now.
(past resident with happy memories of long gone nicer Sydenham)
Banning drinking in public
drinking
Hi Jackie
Do you have any ideas why Sydenham has changed so much since the 50s? I have been wondering because it has been mentioned before that the area (particularly a very long time ago) was considered very upmarket. I know it is getting a lot better, but I wonder why it changed in the first place....
Do you have any ideas why Sydenham has changed so much since the 50s? I have been wondering because it has been mentioned before that the area (particularly a very long time ago) was considered very upmarket. I know it is getting a lot better, but I wonder why it changed in the first place....
I was in Sydenham in th 50's , although only 10 in 59.
Sydenham was very quiet , only 2 eating establishemnts . Sunday's very boring , nothing happened.
It was diferent than now but so was every other place in London. There was far more community ( people used to speak to strangers , children usually went to cubs , scouts , guides etc ).
Far less material goods arround but that was not a bad thing. If you wanted something you saved for it , so much better than our credit society today ).
It was not perfect but probably average person happier than today.
Sydenham was very quiet , only 2 eating establishemnts . Sunday's very boring , nothing happened.
It was diferent than now but so was every other place in London. There was far more community ( people used to speak to strangers , children usually went to cubs , scouts , guides etc ).
Far less material goods arround but that was not a bad thing. If you wanted something you saved for it , so much better than our credit society today ).
It was not perfect but probably average person happier than today.
What, apart from the 640 assigned to Lewisham, including the 2 on the Sydenham SNT as well as the 6 PCSOs specifically tasked to Sydenham?floom wrote:And who precisely is going to enforce this law?
There are no cops around - except in the polticians' imaginations.
I do agree that just passing laws willy-nilly, as this government seems to have done, is pointless. We have enough laws, we should make better use of the ones we have.
Yesterday I saw two of the 'drinkers' having a barny outside the post-office. The police came straight away. I don't know if they just moved them on or actually took them away – all I know is 2 minutes later when I walked past again they had all gone.
So it IS possible for them to be moved using laws already in place.
I think the police were probably called by the two community support officers who were on the opposite side of the road - so looks like they have a use too.
So it IS possible for them to be moved using laws already in place.
I think the police were probably called by the two community support officers who were on the opposite side of the road - so looks like they have a use too.
or don't have a valid ticket for travel....bensonby wrote:but they were removed for haivng a gifht/fracas....not for drinking. To be honest, I don't see why people should be removed unless they are abusive/violent/drunk &c.Juwlz wrote: So it IS possible for them to be moved using laws already in place.
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drinking in public
The fact that Penge also has banned drinking in public explains why Sydenham looks like it is an area full of alcoholics because I am sure Catford banned it a few years ago. So they are probably all congregating here...another reason why I think the town square idea is really bad! (it did form part of the regeneration propsal I think)
It is just another reason why our area looks so down at heel. So many normal, respectable people live in Sydenham but people like that are soooo visible they distract from it.
It is just another reason why our area looks so down at heel. So many normal, respectable people live in Sydenham but people like that are soooo visible they distract from it.
I was saddened and a bit embarrassed to walk down the High street on Saturday (and braving the freezing cold) with a friend who was visiting from Harrow, to show him the delights of living in Sydenham...only to come across a number of very dishevelled street drinkers up and down the street. We walked on in silence and in sympathy for these people who clearly need a great deal of help. They were trying to walk straight. is there no help out there for them?? I'm not aware if there is a role in this area for the churches to try to engage alcoholics more actively to try to support them and encourage them to go to rehab ( I can't imagine that they are happy to lose control and live for their next beverage?).
I suppose I suffer from the NIMBY syndrome like many others: not in my back yard -Hence most other areas like Penge have moved on the street drinkers to other areas for the benefit of the wider community. I know it's part of London life but not nice for children to be exposed to and leaves me feeling sad and depressed when I see them - a little relieved too, if I'm honest, that I don't have an addictive personality and was brought up in a caring hard working family that would step in harshly if I was losing control. They need somewhere they can go but it left me feeling upset to see so many people in distress and stumbling down the high street with cut up faces and bruising and casual walkers trying to steer clear of them. Very sad and depressing! I think I would definitely support a ban in this area.
I suppose I suffer from the NIMBY syndrome like many others: not in my back yard -Hence most other areas like Penge have moved on the street drinkers to other areas for the benefit of the wider community. I know it's part of London life but not nice for children to be exposed to and leaves me feeling sad and depressed when I see them - a little relieved too, if I'm honest, that I don't have an addictive personality and was brought up in a caring hard working family that would step in harshly if I was losing control. They need somewhere they can go but it left me feeling upset to see so many people in distress and stumbling down the high street with cut up faces and bruising and casual walkers trying to steer clear of them. Very sad and depressing! I think I would definitely support a ban in this area.
I agree. It is very depressing to walk down the High Street ( or to give it its correct title Sydenham Rd , High Street up near Woodman ).
If these people are not working where are they getting the funds to buy the drink. Surely to follow Penge and ban drining in main road area could not do any harm. It may work. We would be none the worse of I think.
Hopefully anyway the winter will drive them indoors.
If these people are not working where are they getting the funds to buy the drink. Surely to follow Penge and ban drining in main road area could not do any harm. It may work. We would be none the worse of I think.
Hopefully anyway the winter will drive them indoors.
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Paddy Pantsdown
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 1 Oct 2004 10:04
- Location: Venner Road
People THINK it has. That's the point. That's why they have shifted the problem onto us. Do we just want to pass it on to the next town??
This is just punishing the poor and inept. Got money and live in the Thorpes? You can do just the same even with a banning order on the forecourt of The Dolphin or Golden Lion. The rich appear to be always above the law and social responsibility.
PP
This is just punishing the poor and inept. Got money and live in the Thorpes? You can do just the same even with a banning order on the forecourt of The Dolphin or Golden Lion. The rich appear to be always above the law and social responsibility.
PP
Paddy
Areas outside licensed premises , controlled by them . are of course excempt.
Surely you cannot compare two, persons having a quiet pint in area controlled by Dolphin , probably discussing some importasnt issue such as the political situation in Surinam with two persons drinking cheap lager, in a non controlled area , and insulting passers by. Even using the odd Felixstowe word.
Point is The Dolphin are responsible for any bad behaviour in area controlled by them and they could lose their license.
Areas outside licensed premises , controlled by them . are of course excempt.
Surely you cannot compare two, persons having a quiet pint in area controlled by Dolphin , probably discussing some importasnt issue such as the political situation in Surinam with two persons drinking cheap lager, in a non controlled area , and insulting passers by. Even using the odd Felixstowe word.
Point is The Dolphin are responsible for any bad behaviour in area controlled by them and they could lose their license.
I see where you are coming from, but being scruffy and drinking sub-standard drinks, isn't, and shouldn't be a crime.Eagle wrote:Paddy
Areas outside licensed premises , controlled by them . are of course excempt.
Surely you cannot compare two, persons having a quiet pint in area controlled by Dolphin , probably discussing some importasnt issue such as the political situation in Surinam with two persons drinking cheap lager, in a non controlled area , and insulting passers by. Even using the odd Felixstowe word.
Point is The Dolphin are responsible for any bad behaviour in area controlled by them and they could lose their license.
What is an offence is what I've highlighted in bold, and if they are doing those things then they can be delt with.
Whilst I tend to agree with you about them making the place look and feel less attractive we can't criminalise what we personally just find a little bit tasteless. And if we did we'd just end up moving them on somewhere else...
The answer lies in robustly enforcing the laws as they stand (if they are drunk or if they are abusive &c.) then they should be arrested and punished. Whilst at the same time community groups &c. should offer support for these people.
Bensonby
My point is that outside drinkers at controlled public house areas as , or should be , controlled by the landlord , otherwise his license in danger.
It is the idea of drinking in the street and not under control of a landlord that is the problem. Who is there to control these people ? Who can ask them to leave ?
Boris was right to ban alcohol on public transport .
I know this is not easy but these , no doubt charming individuals , are ,making others life unpleasent.
How are they getting the moeny to drink. I assume they are on benefit and I do not want my taxes spent on these drinks. They obviously are getting to much
My point is that outside drinkers at controlled public house areas as , or should be , controlled by the landlord , otherwise his license in danger.
It is the idea of drinking in the street and not under control of a landlord that is the problem. Who is there to control these people ? Who can ask them to leave ?
Boris was right to ban alcohol on public transport .
I know this is not easy but these , no doubt charming individuals , are ,making others life unpleasent.
How are they getting the moeny to drink. I assume they are on benefit and I do not want my taxes spent on these drinks. They obviously are getting to much
Absolutely, they are - and if those outside drinkers cause a problem then the landlord/lady's licence could be under threat.Eagle wrote:Bensonby
My point is that outside drinkers at controlled public house areas as , or should be , controlled by the landlord , otherwise his license in danger.
Anyone can ask them to leave.... but why do they need to be controlled? If there are ancilliary anti-social/criminal elements of their behaviour, i.e. drunkeness, swearing, disordely behaviour, violence and so one, then the police can deal with them.It is the idea of drinking in the street and not under control of a landlord that is the problem. Who is there to control these people ? Who can ask them to leave ?
Otherwise, other than "looking unpleasant" what harm are they actually doing? Isn't it a basic tenant of a free society that I can sit where I like in public minding my own business? - If that includes sitting there with a tin of special brew so be it.
How are they getting the moeny to drink. I assume they are on benefit and I do not want my taxes spent on these drinks. They obviously are getting to much
Maybe they are on holiday: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/aug/27/vikramdodd
There used to be
a whole group of what used to be called "dossers" sitting drinking on the brick circular seat in front of Home Park in the 70's. A regular sight. The toilets were their 2nd home and they were just part of the furniture. There was just a tiny willow tree in the centre of the seating, opposite the Children's Hospital.
That was before the library had grilles at the windows and I'm sure I've seen some barbed wire there
As children we played unhindered in there and unsupervised. I helped build the adventure playground at the top of the park as did most local kids - no PC brigage then either.
That was before the library had grilles at the windows and I'm sure I've seen some barbed wire there
As children we played unhindered in there and unsupervised. I helped build the adventure playground at the top of the park as did most local kids - no PC brigage then either.
drinking in public
As I was walking past today one of them started using the f-word during an argument. Thankfully I was not with my three-year-old at the time.
We should not have to put up with it, in my opinion, and giving them somewhere to drink 'happily' surely must just compound the problem for them...
Maybe if enough people contacted our local councillors about banning it they might consider doing something. I emailed one of them a long ago with no joy but if more people showed they were unhappy maybe they would do something about it.
It's those of us who are around a lot during the day because we have small children or who are retired who have to encounter it the most.
We should not have to put up with it, in my opinion, and giving them somewhere to drink 'happily' surely must just compound the problem for them...
Maybe if enough people contacted our local councillors about banning it they might consider doing something. I emailed one of them a long ago with no joy but if more people showed they were unhappy maybe they would do something about it.
It's those of us who are around a lot during the day because we have small children or who are retired who have to encounter it the most.