Police crack down on e-scooters

[El Cid]

It was good to see the police today cracking down on people riding e-scooters. They have became a menace. I counted eight officers positioned near Sainsbury's and the Lawrie Park Road/Westwood Hill junction this afternoon. I saw one young guy get put in the back of a police van, along with his e-scooter. An officer I spoke to said they had confiscated three e-scooters.

[stuart]

There are far more dangerous road users on Westwood Hill they could have been confiscating ....

Stuart

[Parker1970]

16 y/o boy killed on an E-Scooter in Bromley.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57874409

[stuart]

Will they confiscate the car if the driver is found guilty of failure to stop and/or dangerous driving. And if not, why not?
Indeed why are cars legal while far less dangerous to others and more environmentally friendly modes of transport are outlawed?
History has a story to tell here.

Stuart

[El Cid]

The reason e-scooters are being confiscated by the police is that it is illegal to use them on the pavements and roads (unless hired from one of several pilot schemes running in London). Cars are not illegal on the road. When I walk down the high street, I see numerous e-scooters whizzing along the pavements, putting pedestrians at risk of serious injury. I have to say, I don't see cars driving along pavements.

[f4monty]

The problem here is that the police will get it in the neck whatever they do. When they run crackdowns on drivers with no insurance for example (and cars are confiscated and crushed for such an offence), people will cry out for action on e-scooters. And vice versa.

It bothers me that everything on here is either/ or. Surely we should be glad that action is being taken against a menace (them being driven on pavements with no regard to pedestrians) while at the same time asking for action on cars. I’ve tried time and again to get the police to action speeding around here, sometimes I see a response and at others not. Doesn’t mean I oppose action on illegal e-scooters.

[Parker1970]

The problem here is that the police will get it in the neck whatever they do. When they run crackdowns on drivers with no insurance for example (and cars are confiscated and crushed for such an offence), people will cry out for action on e-scooters. And vice versa.

It bothers me that everything on here is either/ or. Surely we should be glad that action is being taken against a menace (them being driven on pavements with no regard to pedestrians) while at the same time asking for action on cars. I’ve tried time and again to get the police to action speeding around here, sometimes I see a response and at others not. Doesn’t mean I oppose action on illegal e-scooters.

I fully concur.

Most of the time it's not the vehicle that is the issue... it's the person in charge of it.
There are good cyclists, there are bad ones
There are good motorists, there are bad ones

That said, a 3yr old girl has suffered serious injuries after being hit by an e-scooter in a park.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57908240

[mikej]

To give this issue some context, 24,000 a year killed or seriously injured on the roads as it is in the UK & it is (wrongly) accepted by society.

5 die every day.

If we are discussing escooter safety why aren’t we discussing & doing more about road safety? We seem blind to it.

[stuart]

Well said Mikej.

Who overwhelmingly kills & maims pedestrians on pavements? Answer: motor vehicles, motor vehicles & motor vehicles. Only yesterday:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57934076

Walking up Westwood Hill - which I do several times a week - you would be very unlucky to be disturbed by an escooter or bicycle. You are guaranteed to have your passage impeded by motor cars parked both legally and illegally on the pavement. If you have a double buggy you may have to take to the road to get round them. Then there is the much repaired walls opposite Lawrie Park Gardens testimony to the many cars that lost control, left the road and crossed the pavement before, thankfully, the speed camera was put in to slow them down.

A sense of proportion please. There is a demand for e-scooters and a willing switch from car to scooter should be a win-win for congestion, pollution and climate change. If we can legalise them and find a safe space for them on the road then it should make walking safer too.

Stuart

[bensonby]

Will they confiscate the car if the driver is found guilty of failure to stop and/or dangerous driving. And if not, why not?
Indeed why are cars legal while far less dangerous to others and more environmentally friendly modes of transport are outlawed?
History has a story to tell here.

Stuart

The police powers to seize vehicles derive from s165A of the Road Traffic Act: for driving without insurance or not in accordance with a license. As mechanically propelled vehicles E-scooters require licensing and insurance, e.g.I n they can’t have, so they can be seized by default if used on a road. There is no general power to seize for other offences, unless the vehicle needs taking as evidence for forensics etc.

[bensonby]

Well said Mikej.

Who overwhelmingly kills & maims pedestrians on pavements? Answer: motor vehicles, motor vehicles & motor vehicles. Only yesterday:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57934076

Walking up Westwood Hill - which I do several times a week - you would be very unlucky to be disturbed by an escooter or bicycle. You are guaranteed to have your passage impeded by motor cars parked both legally and illegally on the pavement. If you have a double buggy you may have to take to the road to get round them. Then there is the much repaired walls opposite Lawrie Park Gardens testimony to the many cars that lost control, left the road and crossed the pavement before, thankfully, the speed camera was put in to slow them down.

A sense of proportion please. There is a demand for e-scooters and a willing switch from car to scooter should be a win-win for congestion, pollution and climate change. If we can legalise them and find a safe space for them on the road then it should make walking safer too.

Stuart

Obviously the headline stats snow motorised vehicles as causing far more death and injury. I’d be interested to see the stats for deaths/serious injury per mile driven though compared to e-scooters and the like.

I think being entirely pro or entirely anti any one for of transport is a bit silly. They are often used for entirely different purposes. Horses for courses so to speak.

[stuart]

Obviously the headline stats snow motorised vehicles as causing far more death and injury. I’d be interested to see the stats for deaths/serious injury per mile driven though compared to e-scooters and the like.

I think being entirely pro or entirely anti any one for of transport is a bit silly. They are often used for entirely different purposes. Horses for courses so to speak.

Welcome back Bensonby and thanks for the legal info.

However, I'm afraid one should never compare two very different modes of transport on an 'incident per km travelled'. For example air travel is seen as very, very safe because billions of passenger miles are achieved per fatality. This is because planes fly a lot of people comparatively long distances compared to, say, cars and nearly all risk is associated with the first and last few miles. Cars do a lot of miles on motorways and where they are at zero risk of hitting a pedestrian.

A more realistic measure relevant to a pedestrian is "what are my chances of a KSI from an e-scooter or a car if I walk a mile"? Here it ii's minute for e-scooters and bicycles compared to cars. People already have a highly inflated fear generated by some sections of the media (coincidentally heavily financed by the motor industry). And, of course, it discounts all those pedestrians whose lives are shortened by emmissions.

I totally agree with your horses for courses. But, as you know when bicycles are the most logical way of travelling short distances - all the studies indicate its fear of motor vehicles that stops them doing what they might otherwise do. So they use, like me, a car which only makes things worse.

Which is why nudges in right direction by the police are important in the way they use their discretion. Far more crime and dangerous crime gets committed on the road by drivers than by e-scooters other than the technical quirk which makes e-scooters illegal. But its all political. Crackdown on e-scooters gets good press, persecution of motorists the reverse.

Disclosure: I'm a car driver, motor-cyclist, bicyclist and pedestrian. Not a scooterist because ,sadly I value my licence more than a zealous member of the constabulary might. Which, imho, is a shame.

Stuart