The 202
It varies, I saw both a single decker and a double decker 202 this morning on my way to the station. I hope the single deckers are going to be phased out as they get awfully busy.
Off topic a little but I would also like it if they lengthened the bus routes out of Sydenham, apart from the 176, which doesn't actually stop on the high street, none of the other bus routes go any further into town beyond the edge of zone 2, it is almost as though Lewisham are trying to keep Sydenham residents out of zone 1. Lower Sydenham is especially poorly served.
Off topic a little but I would also like it if they lengthened the bus routes out of Sydenham, apart from the 176, which doesn't actually stop on the high street, none of the other bus routes go any further into town beyond the edge of zone 2, it is almost as though Lewisham are trying to keep Sydenham residents out of zone 1. Lower Sydenham is especially poorly served.
I think bus routes and stops were mentioned in the Sydenham Road project, but don't hold your breath - we have to wait for all the scheduled utility disruptions before any work starts!
If you listen to Barry Milton's report on the Transport issues at the last Assembly meeting (see video report), he mentions that we have the power to change bus routes - just write to the relevent bus company/TfL.
Nobody's going to know you want more bus routes into central London, unless you ask for it...
If you listen to Barry Milton's report on the Transport issues at the last Assembly meeting (see video report), he mentions that we have the power to change bus routes - just write to the relevent bus company/TfL.
Nobody's going to know you want more bus routes into central London, unless you ask for it...
And while we're talking about bus routes, there's always the good old issue of the 176 from central London randomly changing destination and terminating on route, despite originally being intended to go all the way to Penge. I was not too thrilled about being dumped out at Dulwich with no warning and having to wait for 15mins in the rain a couple of weeks ago!
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Pat Trembath
- Posts: 613
- Joined: 2 Oct 2004 10:54
Here's my twopennyworth.
The 450 (starting from Bell Green) and the 122 are scheduled to meet at the first bus stop above Cobbs within a minute of each other. If all goes to plan and there are no hold ups this results in a 14 minute gap between the scheduled service. Surely it should be possible to retime the 450'ds departure from Bell Green - or is this too simple?
The 450 (starting from Bell Green) and the 122 are scheduled to meet at the first bus stop above Cobbs within a minute of each other. If all goes to plan and there are no hold ups this results in a 14 minute gap between the scheduled service. Surely it should be possible to retime the 450'ds departure from Bell Green - or is this too simple?
good point well made mummycat, so I have just sent an email to tfl asking if they might consider rerouting the 176 so that it actually comes into Sydenham before it turns off for Penge rather than just skimming Cobbs roundabout. I also pointed out that Penge has 2 night buses whereas, since the demise of the N75, which didn't really go anywhere you would want to spend a night out, Lower Sydenham has precisely none.
The 450 is an annoying service all round, it is not very frequent after about 8pm and nearly goes to Sydenham Hill station but doesn't quite! In fact there are no buses that stop at Sydenham Hill station- is that because of college owned grounds or some such I wonder?
Is it also true we have to wait for the utility people to finish before they give Sydenham road a facelift? Aren't the water companies going to be digging for about 2 years or some ridiculous amount of time...the value of that pot of money they have set aside is going to be able to pay for a new hanging basket and and a touch up of the yellow lines by the time they get around to spending it. It's so annoying, essentially all they are planning to do is put down a few paving stones and make it easier to cross the road, I don't see why they need all these consultations, why don't they just get on and do it! Sorry rant over.
The 450 is an annoying service all round, it is not very frequent after about 8pm and nearly goes to Sydenham Hill station but doesn't quite! In fact there are no buses that stop at Sydenham Hill station- is that because of college owned grounds or some such I wonder?
Is it also true we have to wait for the utility people to finish before they give Sydenham road a facelift? Aren't the water companies going to be digging for about 2 years or some ridiculous amount of time...the value of that pot of money they have set aside is going to be able to pay for a new hanging basket and and a touch up of the yellow lines by the time they get around to spending it. It's so annoying, essentially all they are planning to do is put down a few paving stones and make it easier to cross the road, I don't see why they need all these consultations, why don't they just get on and do it! Sorry rant over.
Last edited by Richie on 19 Sep 2008 15:49, edited 1 time in total.
Its because of the toll-gate further down. There aren't any turn offs between fountain drive and teh tollgate. Also the estates governors try and limit the amount of public transport in the area..or at least they used to.Richie wrote:good point well made mummycat, so I have just sent an email to tfl asking if they might consider rerouting the 176 so that it actually comes into Sydenham before it turns off for Penge rather than just skimming Cobbs roundabout. I also pointed out that Penge has 2 night buses whereas, since the demise of the N75, which didn't really go anywhere you would want to spend a night out, Lower Sydenham has precisely none.
The 450 is an annoying service all round, it is nto very frequent after about 8pm and nearly goes to Sydenham Hill station but doesn't quite! In fact there are no buses that stop at Sydenham Hill station- is that because of college owned gorunds or some such I wonder?
May I remind posters that while we encourage discussion on any subject there are limitations. No abuse, no illegal stuff, no defamation and no messin' with the 176.Richie wrote:I have just sent an email to tfl asking if they might consider rerouting the 176 so that it actually comes into Sydenham before it turns off for Penge rather than just skimming Cobbs roundabout.
Should anything happen as a result of your email Ritchie I'm afraid your IP will be handed over to the Lawrie Park Massive. Expect a Denial of Service attack to extend further than your laptop.
Be afraid, be very afraid,
Admin
176
Hi Richie
Thanks for common sense! I fully agree that lower Sydenham" is underserved by key bus routes going into London like the 176. Wouldn't it be fab to hop on to the 176 at Sydenham library and beyond. I guess the only advantage to having to trot up to Cobbs corner to catch the 176 is 1)I get to jog 2)daytimes I get to pass the blue mountain caff for a cuppa which is always a nice thing. 3)blank. Perhaps, Richie, a stiff note to tfl is in order to suggest they re-consider their bus routes in lower Sydenham?
Thanks for common sense! I fully agree that lower Sydenham" is underserved by key bus routes going into London like the 176. Wouldn't it be fab to hop on to the 176 at Sydenham library and beyond. I guess the only advantage to having to trot up to Cobbs corner to catch the 176 is 1)I get to jog 2)daytimes I get to pass the blue mountain caff for a cuppa which is always a nice thing. 3)blank. Perhaps, Richie, a stiff note to tfl is in order to suggest they re-consider their bus routes in lower Sydenham?
When I used to live in Devonshire Rd, I was spoilt for night buses after being out on the town (and the very useful P12 service). However, IMO Forest Hill and Syd are very poorly served at night. The 176 is great but after midnight, you often have to wait over 30 mins - and then the bus is chocka.
I would like to see the 171 (or 172? - I forget which one) that terminates at Brockly Rise to carry on through to FH and Syd. And - isn't there also the N363 that terminates at the Forest Hill Tavern? This could carry onto Syd Hill/Kirkdale en route to Crystal Palace?
I would like to see the 171 (or 172? - I forget which one) that terminates at Brockly Rise to carry on through to FH and Syd. And - isn't there also the N363 that terminates at the Forest Hill Tavern? This could carry onto Syd Hill/Kirkdale en route to Crystal Palace?
Last edited by Gaz on 20 Sep 2008 14:48, edited 1 time in total.
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brian stimson
- Posts: 50
- Joined: 28 Jun 2008 14:14
- Location: forest of dean
Re: The 202
Talking about busses makes me very nostalgic for when I lived in Sydenham in the fifties. Is there still a 108 that runs to the other side of the river via Lewisham. It was a double decker but had a low rounded roof to go through the Blackwall tunnel, bad news if you were tall and a smoker because you had to go upstairs with limited headroom!bensonby wrote:Is the 202 bus now a double decker? I saw one in the high street yesterday that was a double decker....has anyone else seen the same?
Re: The 202
the 108 still goes through the tunnel, although it is now a single decker...brian stimson wrote:Talking about busses makes me very nostalgic for when I lived in Sydenham in the fifties. Is there still a 108 that runs to the other side of the river via Lewisham. It was a double decker but had a low rounded roof to go through the Blackwall tunnel, bad news if you were tall and a smoker because you had to go upstairs with limited headroom!bensonby wrote:Is the 202 bus now a double decker? I saw one in the high street yesterday that was a double decker....has anyone else seen the same?
Last edited by bensonby on 22 Sep 2008 10:22, edited 1 time in total.
There isn't (I think) a N363 service although there is the N63 that goes along Sydenham Hill to Crystal Palace:And - isn't there also the N363 that terminates at the Forest Hill Tavern? This could carry onto Syd Hill/Kirkdale en route to Crystal Palace?
http://www.londonbusroutes.net/times/N063.htm
I just emailed the following to TFL:mummycat wrote:Nobody's going to know you want more bus routes into central London, unless you ask for it...
me to TFL wrote:I live close to Sydenham train station and often use the 176 service to travel from central London to my home in the early hours of the morning, especially at weekends. There are several problems with this service:
- it is not frequent enough during the early hours
- there is not enough capacity; buses are always packed
- the bus often terminates at Dulwich Plough or Forest Hill, even when the destination board indicates that it is bound for Penge
- the route is very long and it takes far too long to reach Sydenham
These problems mean that I have, on occasion, waited at a bus stop near Waterloo station for almost 90 minutes, only to resort to getting a taxi home. This is because I just missed one bus and the next two were so full that the driver wouldn’t let any more people on, even after a used a different service to catch up to the 176 at Camberwell.
I have also been kicked off the 176 at both Dulwich Plough and Forest Hill on numerous occasions, even though the destination board indicated that I’d be able to travel to Sydenham on the service.
At night, Sydenham is very poorly served by buses running from central London. I would be interested to hear of any plans to improve this situation. I can’t help but feel that the length of the 176’s route is part of the problem – so many people try to use this infrequent service to get home that capacity problems are unavoidable.
that's great, I know I am stating the obvious, but the more emails tfl get mentioning bus services in Sydenham (the 176 or indeed others) the more likely they are to review services in the area. It is great that we are going to have vastly improved rail links, but it would be nice to get decent bus links too.
Just thought I'd share my reply from TfL with everyone:
TfL wrote:Thank you for your recent email regarding route 176.
I am sorry that you have not experienced the first class bus service that we are committed to providing, and we welcome any comments to help us improve our services.
We realise that our services need to be reliable and convenient if we are to attract more passengers, and we monitor the bus network to identify those routes that fail to perform to the standard we expect. We can then work with our operators to overcome the problems that they face, and improve the level of service that is offered to our passengers.
Buses along this route are required to leave the garage at regular intervals to maintain an even and regular service, and timetables are also planned to take instances of disruption into account. However, since traffic conditions can change suddenly, delays are occasionally experienced. These are normally attributed to traffic congestion, road works and illegal parking.
This also holds true for the problems you have encountered with this route being curtailed before it reaches the final destination. If for any reason a bus is particularly delayed, or needs to be taken out of service, route controllers will sometimes stop it short of its usual destination. This allows the delayed bus to turn around, and return to its usual timetable in the opposite direction. This is done to prevent severe delays from being passed from one journey to the next. We realise that this causes inconvenience for some passengers, and so expect our operators to only take this action as a last resort. However, it is done to benefit the majority of passengers using the service. I do appreciate that this is particularly frustrating when the route is as long as this one.
I have investigated your suggestions for increased capacity and frequency, and have passed on your recommendations to our Network Development Manager, who will then be in a better position to make an informed decision when next this route is reviewed. Your feedback in this respect is particularly useful, as it helps us to evaluate the impact of the service, and those areas where improvement is necessary.
Once again, thank you for taking the time to contact me. If I can be of any further assistance, please feel free to contact me.