Bell Green Gas Holders - Proposal to Demolish in April 2018.

[LawriePark]

Continued at a new post. Bell Green - A New Plan, January 2019

???

Don’t let us down. We’re all dying to hear what the “Real Friends” of Bellingham have to say. For the hundredth time...

[JGD]

Don’t let us down. We’re all dying to hear what the “Real Friends” of Bellingham have to say. For the hundredth time...

You've had my response on the "Real friends" issue LP - and you still have not taken up my invitation for a drink.

[michael]

News from Southern Gas Network:

We are currently in the process of cleaning the gas holder tanks, which can create additional odours in and around the area. I can assure you, that although these odours can be unpleasant, they do not pose any risk to health or the environment. All noise, odour and dust levels are being closely monitored. We have also just installed some odour suppression systems to alleviate some of the potentially unpleasant odours from the site. The odour suppressant we are using will smell of ‘bubble gum’ rather than the odour from the gas holders themselves. We will continue to monitor the odour levels in the area and take any additional steps to mitigate as necessary.

[JGD]

News from Southern Gas Network:

We are currently in the process of cleaning the gas holder tanks, which can create additional odours in and around the area. I can assure you, that although these odours can be unpleasant, they do not pose any risk to health or the environment. All noise, odour and dust levels are being closely monitored. We have also just installed some odour suppression systems to alleviate some of the potentially unpleasant odours from the site. The odour suppressant we are using will smell of ‘bubble gum’ rather than the odour from the gas holders themselves. We will continue to monitor the odour levels in the area and take any additional steps to mitigate as necessary.

I have visited the site frequently and been up close in recent weeks. I think reports of increased levels of malodorous emissions are overstated.

Or are the mitigation measures in terms of odour suppression already proving to be extremely effective.

Can't say I have noticed the reported "bubble gum" smell - but maybe Keltbray and SGN are actually using a different brand.

Never mind - no doubt it can help mask the reeking pile of ordure that the hypocrisy of the local listing of the gas-holders represented.

[John H]

Hard to imagine how they could dispose of these ancient gas holders without there being a smell... but the smell is created by an additive. Natural gas has no odour of its own. This made it more dangerous than Town Gas and so an additive was applied.

Since the gas holders are, I believe, sealed with water... surely the best way to dispose of the contents is to flush them out...

Just saying!

[mosy]

John H. I agree absolutely about their making the then new natural gas smelly on purpose (cos I know they did that).

Strangely, some (a lot of?) people can't or don't smell gas as I can and do. I've reported suspected leaks a couple of times, then to see a road or pavement dug up shortly afterwards. Maybe the gas holder dismantling smell might not be noticeable to some. Hopefully any smell will just be of the additive, not residual embedded gas, but even as I write that, how the heck can it just be the additive? I'm jolly glad that cleaning up the site was imposed.

PS: John H, wouldn't flushing out with water just put gas etc into the ground water table or the nearby stream? I know nothing, but hopefully the experts and contractors won't cut corners.

[John H]

John H. I agree absolutely about their making the then new natural gas smelly on purpose (cos I know they did that).

Strangely, some (a lot of?) people can't or don't smell gas as I can and do. I've reported suspected leaks a couple of times, then to see a road or pavement dug up shortly afterwards. Maybe the gas holder dismantling smell might not be noticeable to some. Hopefully any smell will just be of the additive, not residual embedded gas, but even as I write that, how the heck can it just be the additive? I'm jolly glad that cleaning up the site was imposed.

PS: John H, wouldn't flushing out with water just put gas etc into the ground water table or the nearby stream? I know nothing, but hopefully the experts and contractors won't cut corners.

I doubt if there is any or much gas left in the holders. Gas regularly escapes to the atmosphere and so far as I am aware it eventually breaks down in sunlight. ALL gas sites have to be cleaned... That was why Sainsbury's took so long.

Perhaps you are the one that keeps reported gas leaks close to my house. Everytime the gas people turn up they replace another connection to the main... while causing maximum possible disruption to every household... They have never found an actual leak.

[mosy]

John H, the suspected leaks I've reported were on Sydenham Road. However, I was told that they first came with air-monitoring hand gadgets to determine if a leak was indeed occurring (I did actually see them doing this as I was coincidentally out shopping) so a leak must have been confirmed before any digging-up took place. The gas people did start routine pipe renewal a while back so perhaps your road was undergoing routine updating or maintenance. On the other hand, would they admit to a leak or just comfort saying "nothing to worry about"?

[John H]

John H, the suspected leaks I've reported were on Sydenham Road. However, I was told that they first came with air-monitoring hand gadgets to determine if a leak was indeed occurring (I did actually see them doing this as I was coincidentally out shopping) so a leak must have been confirmed before any digging-up took place. The gas people did start routine pipe renewal a while back so perhaps your road was undergoing routine updating or maintenance. On the other hand, would they admit to a leak or just comfort saying "nothing to worry about"?

My own house had its supply completely replaced... There was no leak. They simply could not find the source of the smell. A couple of weeks later and they were back again and another house had its supply replaced. Still they could not find the source … and so it went on and on and on...

Sewers quite frequently smell of gas. The gas, however, is methane. Such a smell indicates poor maintenance of the sewerage system. The additive to natural gas is too close to the smell of sewer gas.

However... any gas leak anywhere in the street will see gas travelling along the ducts created by the cable tv people... and surface quite a distance from the actual leak. I keep pointing this out to them. The inspection manhole for the cable tv system is outside my house and that is where the smell always comes from. The leak is likely thirty or more doors away.

[Growsydenham]

Is there any basis in the twitter rumour that houses are planned here? From a user calling themselves @sgasworks. Great news if true.

[JGD]

Is there any basis in the twitter rumour that houses are planned here? From a user calling themselves @sgasworks. Great news if true.

Saw that post and it being re-tweeted by @si_mccormack from @d__architecture.

The re-tweet seemed to be requesting clarification from Lewisham Mayor Damian Egan about any negotiations he was having with St William Property Developers (a part of Berkeley Group) and whether this was leading to the Mayor dis-engaging with SydSoc and their putative community master plan. It is worth noting that the Mayor had made previous public pronouncement on the Lewisham web-site that he welcomed the development of a community-led master plan.

St Williams have a web-site https://www.berkeleygroup.co.uk/about-u ... st-william

Part of the blurb describes one project as

major new regeneration scheme by landscape-led developer St William.

There is no observable commentary on their provision of affordable housing.

As yet I have seen no other firm announcements or information about development of the SE6 Bell Green site.

It might help to understand that Damian Egan has retained the Planning Brief regarding Regeneration issues for the council.

SydSoc has not made any substantive progress in engaging with Bellingham Ward and Perry Vale Ward residents.

SydSoc chair presented at Bellingham Ward assembly and described how a civic forum/society could be set up with residents and that a master plan was in the making. There was no invitation issued to the community of Bellingham to join such a forum or any narrative made about how contributions could be made to the master plan. Another SydSoc representative then stood and spoke to a pollution map around the environs of Haseltine school and made commentary that the widening of Southend Lane bridge would not improve anything (?) and that the development of housing proposals on the Bell Green site was not feasible as to build homes would mean the influx of thousands (sic) of new residents.

The wider Bellingham community had no real lead-time in advance of the meeting to be made aware that this issue was belatedly added to the agenda and thereby many who would be interested did not attend.

There was no announcement made as to when another community meeting would take place to engage in the development of the master plan.

There has been no public pronouncement on how the Perry Vale community is to be engaged.

So far the communication of what this master plan is and how it is to be developed has not reached any significantly greater audience than the attendees of the closed SydSoc meeting and its follow up in the Railway Tavern. This represents an ongoing and significant failure.

Socially affordable housing I think will have significant merit on this site - but not everyone will agree and this matter needs the community to be fully engaged in public consultation.

The widening of the Southend Lane bridge also has merit but there are more than one set of arguments that need to be aired and discussed fully with all stakeholders - Network Rail, LB Lewisham and all of the surrounding communities.

[RJM]

Socially affordable housing I think will have significant merit on this site - but not everyone will agree and this matter needs the community to be fully engaged in public consultation.

I'd be pleased to see this, but only as part of a plan which actually looks at the area holistically (that goes for any housing on the site). When I say holistically, I mean taking into account demand on local infrastructure, from transport to GP surgeries and schools. I'd also like to see something which has environmental sustainability factored in, so not just designed for cars but for pedestrians, cyclists etc. If there's going to be a "community masterplan" then it should be one which takes into account the wider area around Bell Green and the community which use it. I walk to the shops from Perry Vale ward, or from Lower Sydenham station on my way home and it's not particularly pedestrian friendly. New housing developments need to discourage use of cars, and not just by a lack of parking but by making proper, safe alternatives available.

But everything about the future of this site appears to be rumour and conjecture just now!

[Growsydenham]

Is there any basis in the twitter rumour that houses are planned here? From a user calling themselves @sgasworks. Great news if true.

Saw that post and it being re-tweeted by @si_mccormack from @d__architecture.

The re-tweet seemed to be requesting clarification from Lewisham Mayor Damian Egan about any negotiations he was having with St William Property Developers (a part of Berkeley Group) and whether this was leading to the Mayor dis-engaging with SydSoc and their putative community master plan. It is worth noting that the Mayor had made previous public pronouncement on the Lewisham web-site that he welcomed the development of a community-led master plan.

St Williams have a web-site https://www.berkeleygroup.co.uk/about-u ... st-william

Part of the blurb describes one project as

major new regeneration scheme by landscape-led developer St William.

There is no observable commentary on their provision of affordable housing.

As yet I have seen no other firm announcements or information about development of the SE6 Bell Green site.

It might help to understand that Damian Egan has retained the Planning Brief regarding Regeneration issues for the council.

SydSoc has not made any substantive progress in engaging with Bellingham Ward and Perry Vale Ward residents.

SydSoc chair presented at Bellingham Ward assembly and described how a civic forum/society could be set up with residents and that a master plan was in the making. There was no invitation issued to the community of Bellingham to join such a forum or any narrative made about how contributions could be made to the master plan. Another SydSoc representative then stood and spoke to a pollution map around the environs of Haseltine school and made commentary that the widening of Southend Lane bridge would not improve anything (?) and that the development of housing proposals on the Bell Green site was not feasible as to build homes would mean the influx of thousands (sic) of new residents.

The wider Bellingham community had no real lead-time in advance of the meeting to be made aware that this issue was belatedly added to the agenda and thereby many who would be interested did not attend.

There was no announcement made as to when another community meeting would take place to engage in the development of the master plan.

There has been no public pronouncement on how the Perry Vale community is to be engaged.

So far the communication of what this master plan is and how it is to be developed has not reached any significantly greater audience than the attendees of the closed SydSoc meeting and its follow up in the Railway Tavern. This represents an ongoing and significant failure.

Socially affordable housing I think will have significant merit on this site - but not everyone will agree and this matter needs the community to be fully engaged in public consultation.

The widening of the Southend Lane bridge also has merit but there are more than one set of arguments that need to be aired and discussed fully with all stakeholders - Network Rail, LB Lewisham and all of the surrounding communities.

Odd if true that housing has been “ruled out” by Sydenham society given that their “master plan” ostensibly calls for housing.
If you can’t build houses on this former industrial brownfield where can you?