Oystergate: Showdown Time

[bensonby]

also sorry, how many users go through sydenham station everyday using the platform 2 entrance/exit. because far more people go through that way than platform 1. i failed to see how having the gate or another office on platform 1 open for those approx 1,200 people is going to solve the problem at platform 2. that 1,200 is a very SMALL minority.

There are two distinct problems. Noone is linking them much, although if some of the people that currently use platform 2 use platform 1 instead then there will be a little bit less of a crush on platform 2.

That said, the two issues are generally seperate. The issue of the gate on platform one is really over equal access for disabled people and those with mobility problems. s.22 of the Disability Discrimination Act says that providers of goods and services must do all in their power to make access equal to that of able-bodied people. By having a buzzer access then the diabled are beholdant to other people to access the station. this was not the case before and able bodied people can let themselved in - thus it is retrograde and, probably, illegal.

The issue of the gates on platform 2 revolves around the fact that commuters are being unreasonably delayed. They are detained at the station for a considerable period of time in peak hours when this wasn't the case before. Therefore they are being invconvenienced - which is unlawful under railway byelaw number 6.

It really doensn't matter that the "majority" havn't signed a petition. What matters is that what the railway have done is wrong, and, in my opinion, illegal. Are you seriously suggesting that people want, and have campaigned for, these changes that Southern have made? If you do, then start a counter petition. I doubt you'll have any support.

[Raven Drone]

I had to wait about 5 minutes this week while everyone piled through the small exit at the station...in the meantime my train on platform 1 came and went and there was absolutely nothing I could do to get on it.....

Similarly I noticed a heavily pregnant woman waiting patiently at the buzzor on platform 1.... she looked at the point of crossing the bridge when it was finally opened for her. Not suprisingly because the ticket officer was busy dealing with all the people leaving the station...

The only improvement I see is a new ticket machine and until I can use my PAYG Oyster card I will remain peed off with it all.

[poppy]

I don't suppose anyone counted how many people were using the ticket office entrance before the Spring Hill exit closure? Otherwise it seems like it is just assumption that a lot more people us the former, surely? It probably would depend on whether people needed to renew tickets etc too....

[mysti77]

I'll be there for sure.

[boon]

I'll do my best to be there. On an interesting note, I just came through Sydenham station about 10 minutes ago (an hour and a half before the meeting) and saw a railway employee in a suit and tie - possibly one of the people the mayor is meeting - and there were three workmen doing something to the platform 1 gate. Looked to me like they were setting up something they could announce at the meeting.

[Patch]

one very important point is that the with the gate 1 exit shut, it has stop all the riff raff coming through. has any been bother to check crimerate statistics regarding that area of the gate??? surely that is the main objective here, too ensure the safety of the station let alone the commuters who use the station.

what if that gate re-opened and there was a increase in muggings etc, people would then be moaning about the security and everything else invovled.

o and why people are going on about delays and that, has anyone put a thought in about the kiosk at sydenham station. i know first hand, that they are losing money from the barriers and if the gate was to open they would looks a hell of a lot more business. they too have to go to work and earn a living. for the people who live near the platform 2 side people who use that side, how are they going to get their tea's, coffee, papers etc if that was too close down.

[Patch]

But Patch you surely aren't suggesting that the majority of passengers using Sydenham station don't want easy and direct access to and from both platforms are you?

I doubt whether any more than a small handfull would reject the notion of wider gates at or near the ticket office and a properly constructed barrier worked by Oystercards and tickets on the other platform.

If you seriously believe that we don't want to go down this route, then why don't you start a campaign and collect signatures to keep the status quo and reject the notion of easy and better access?

I doubt if you could collect more than a dozen signatures for such an unpopular position.

But best of luck in your campaign.

Personally, I'm backing the mayor and the passengers. And I'm confident that our campaign will be successful.

i'm not saying that people do not want easy and better access to the station, im merely pointing out that people will still find something to complain about.

if they had put a ticket office over on platform 1, they would need to hire more staff which in turn could mean increase in prices for fares (yes i know they go up anyway but still) and training for new employees which people will complain about because they are slow at giving people their tickets or sorting out problems that occure.

[Weeble]

Eager to hear any updates - I've just come from the station and saw Peter Field and others loitering, a film camera, possibly the mayor and...the platform 1 gate was OPEN and the barriers on platform two were OPEN when a train came in.

Is this a promising development?

Patch - your arguments are nonsensical - with one breath you're complaining the kiosk staff will be out of business, with the next complaining that the train station will need to employ more staff. As for increase in muggings - the gate on platform 1 has to be open any time the station isn't manned, including at night. If there is a a whole load of muggings going on down there in broad daylight, then sorry I've missed that.

Anyway, I'm unashamedly behind opening up the gates for my own convenience. If you add a 4 minute wait to get through the barriers to the 4 minutes extra it takes to walk round the station because the gate is closed, that adds about 20% on to my total commute. Call me lazy, selfish or whatever but I'm not really happy with my commuting time being extended by 20%!

[admin]

The film cameraman was Sean and it was Mayor Steve, Jim Dowd MP, John Oliver from Southern Rail & Peter Field from TfL.

We hope to have Sean's movie ready tomorrow afternoon. I trust it will be compulsive viewing. The two liner is Southern are thinking about opening the Platform 1 gate for the morning rush in advance of putting in proper oystergates there ....

Admin

[boon]

I found it quite interesting that they had the platform 1 gate open today during the meeting. An effort to alleviate congestion for the camera?

[Mrs.E]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. It takes 5 minute tops at rush hour to get through the barrier (a lot less than the congestion at London Bridge in the morning)!! Obviously there are going to be some initial teething problems, but personally I am happy to wait for an additional 5 minutes if it means that everyone has to buy a ticket. I know of 3 people that used to 'bunk' the train and they have now had to buy season tickets. Why should some people get away with it when honest people have to pay?
I actually get annoyed when the barriers are open - Horary for the barriers!!

[bensonby]

I had to leave half way through - and I must admit I garbled my words a little when pointing out the legal problems. Then again, they weren't up for an argument on the intricacies of points of law were they?

We cannot really win this right on "safety" or "moral" grounds - the only issue that will ever hold weight it arguing that their legal position is wrong. Which it is IMHO. the DDA and byelaw issues are still to be answered.

Did anything much happen after I left?

[admin]

See here on Oystergate - The Movie:
http://www.sydenham.org.uk/news_oystergate_3.html

With thanks to Sean ...

Admin

[Patch]

Having the platform 1 gate open isn't going to solved the chaos and congestion over at platform 2.

The whole point of yesterday evening was to yes get that gate re-opened AND solve the problem of chaos and congestion over at platform 1.

The way people were coming (just my opinion) across at that meeting was that people who use/d the platform 1 entrance are more important than the people who use the entrance over on platform 2. Why don't you people when the gate re-opens, get a sign in which the goldclass gate entrance?

and did anyone see that resident who complain about the parking. If people want that gate open over on platform 1 so that they can catch their, surely they wouldn't need to park if it was for the residents of that side? People at the meeting said that they want that side gate open for the resident of that side.

and she also pointed out what i tried to say at the meeting before i found, to be rudely shot down by ignorant people who didn't allow myself to finish. The lady pointed out that there was or is alot of young boys hanging about with the gate open.

[bensonby]

I agree that the main issue seemed to be the gate and not as much attention was paid to the isse of the gates in the ticket office. I see them very much as two seperate issues.

I still don't see why "gating" is the only option. It appears that I am one of the few people who absolutely oppose the imposition of gates (on the grounds that there just isn't room for them - short of knocking the whole station down and building a wider entrance)

[Gaz]

Having the platform 1 gate open isn't going to solved the chaos and congestion over at platform 2.

The whole point of yesterday evening was to yes get that gate re-opened AND solve the problem of chaos and congestion over at platform 1.

But by having the gate open at rush hour times would help the congestion on platform 2 as there would be some 1,200 people in the morning alone who would not have to share the platform 2 gates with those already arriving at the station from that side.

The way people were coming (just my opinion) across at that meeting was that people who use/d the platform 1 entrance are more important than the people who use the entrance over on platform 2. Why don't you people when the gate re-opens, get a sign in which the goldclass gate entrance?

I didn't get that opinion from the meeting at all. However, the point was definitely made that far more people head into London Bridge in the morning rush hour than people who need to travel south, and therefore a simple solution would be to do something about the platform 1 gate to avoid bottlenecking platform 2 unnecessarily.

The Southern guy also confirmed that safety was no.1 priority and so the barriers would be opened at the first sign of any crush (ie every evening as was pointed out).

The chap from TFL sounded very positive that they would make improvements to the gating on both sides when the pre-pay oystercard systems eventually arrive.

and did anyone see that resident who complain about the parking. If people want that gate open over on platform 1 so that they can catch their, surely they wouldn't need to park if it was for the residents of that side? People at the meeting said that they want that side gate open for the resident of that side.

Sorry, I didn't hear anything about parking (save for the point that residents on the platform 2 side of the station would also want to limit access to the station if they so could).

and she also pointed out what i tried to say at the meeting before i found, to be rudely shot down by ignorant people who didn't allow myself to finish. The lady pointed out that there was or is alot of young boys hanging about with the gate open.

I don't think we should allow our lives to be inconvenienced just because there may be some lads hanging around. Surprisingly, when exiting the platform 2 gates in the evening there are often young men and women in the vicinity seemingly just hanging around. Also, when I have been down to the platform 1 sidegate when it has been locked I was shocked to see some lads hanging around on the street corner - did they not realise the sidegate was shut!?

After the camera was turned off a few of us continued speaking to the Southern guy. IMO it sounded very positive that something would be done for the morning rushhour. He also confirmed that when buzzing for entry at platform 1, providing a ticket can be shown, the staff will be informed to allow access without questioning the level, or nature, of any disability.

[bensonby]

funnily enough "hanging around" isn't a crime and people that "hang around" aren't doing anything wrong by the mere act...

[Patch]

I know people shouldn't jumb to conclusions but, there may be times when the people hanging around could indeed start causing trouble or being loud which can be a problem which i have seen on the news or tv a fews times residents making a stand against groups hanging around would in turn cause them to have backchat or even be assaulted.

about the parking situation, on silverdale from bishops thorpe all the way down to the top alleyway there isn't residential houses that need silverdale road in order to park on since most of the houses along that part of silverdale have own parking facilities, this is not the case over on i think its peak hill gardens, side of the station. Residential house back straight onto the roads over there.

[Juwlz]

deleted for being boring

[roundasapound]

I was planning to go to Sydenham station and take part in the debate, but unfortunately, due to migraines and high blood pressure was bed bound instead.

I watched the video and nothing has surprised me. The mayor and MP had no power to do anything. They were merely observers.

Southern and TFL have no plan, it's all talk. There could be a million people at that station expressing their discontent about the whole situation, they would still be adamant on those barriers and closing the gate on platform 1.

How on earth they can put in ticket barriers that don't accept oyster pay as you go is beyond comprehension. They knew this was going to happen, but it's cheaper to inconvenience people by whatever means necessary to generate revenue.

Why did they close the gate on platform 1 and not install barriers on that side? Simple, because it costs too much money and the whole intention here is to maximise profit, whilst minimising cost. If that wasn't the case there'd be barriers on both sides or dedicated ticket checkers, plus inspectors on the routes. Also why isn't a ticket machine on the Platform 1 if they are so bothered about people not buying tickets for the journey? Money people, kerrrrching!! ££££££

Residents of Peak Hill, whilst I understand their issues, that doesn't warrant closing the gate on platform 1. Lewisham Council could put 2 dustbins in the area, increased cleaning of the street by either the Council or Southern staff, mounted ashtrays for the smokers that congregate outside (infact this would be a good idea on both sides). Those residents choose to live across the road from the station, and increased parking, people hanging around waiting for their train is what will happen!

Alot of those residents directly across from the station have their own parking and it's very limited on where people can park around there in any case. The majority of the access is in morning and evening peak time, other than that it's trickles of people.

Personally, if I couldn't deal with that I'd apply for a transfer. There are lots of mutual exchanges and transfers between Councils and Housing Associations for those who want to move. For those owning their own home, putting it up for sale wouldn't be a bad idea when things pick up, I'm sure there'd be a keen interest buy some to have a property so close to the station. If you choose to live outside a train station, then you take the advantages and disadvantages that come with living there.

Let's bear in mind that the most of the people that are using platform 1 gate are:

1) Customers paying for a service
2) Local residents who pay council tax and also have a say in what happens on those roads
3) Have as much a valid point to keep the gate open as to those residents wanting it to close
4) Disabled people, the elderly, parents with children who have a right to access the station with ease

Jumping off my soap box now.

BTW, I live on the Platform 2 side of the station but feel very strongly about the whole situation.