The cheaper way of commuting

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 4 Jul 2008 13:54

After a couple of posts in the Oystergate scandal thread got me thinking I believe I found found a (perfectly legal) way to knock 25% off the cost of your season ticket. Lowering the price of the Sydenham - London Bridge monthly down to £50 rather than £67.

Read on...

Condition of Carriage number 16 allows you to start, end or break your journey on any intermediate stations on trains on which your ticket is valid. (provided specific exceptions aren't written on your ticket - why they are not)

Therefore passengers travelling between 2 zone 1 stations can travel through sydenham freely by using the "Crystal Palace Loop" - i.e. London Bridge - London Victoria.

Therefore if you hold a season ticket from London Bridge - London Victoria you may alight, and board, on any intermediate station. Including sydenham.

Arguably you could jump on and off any train along this route - but I wouldn't hold much stock to that as there are no interchanges &c. along the route. I believe this would be somewhat spurious however, and would advise only travelling on the "loop" lines. These lines do operate at rush hour, they run at these times:

Morning peak:

Sydenham-LB (from Victoria)

Departing
0819
0851

Evenging Peak:
LB - Sydenham (to victoria)

Departing
1655
1745
1818

They shaft us with higher fares and insult us with the barriers...the least we can do is get the best value tickets! If these times suit you in your commute then have a nice cheaper journey

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 4 Jul 2008 14:12

Looking at it another way:

Annual Season ticket from Sydenham to LB = £704

Annual Season ticket from LB to LV = £520

Annual saving = £186

lambchops · Post by **lambchops** » 4 Jul 2008 14:50

Can you try it and report back, please?

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 4 Jul 2008 14:56

lambchops wrote:Can you try it and report back, please?

I will do - but in september, as my ticket is currently valid until 29th August.

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't work.... it would probably confuse the gate guards.....but seems perfectly legit to me. Providing you use those specific trains to cover your backside.

Blushingsnail · Post by **Blushingsnail** » 4 Jul 2008 15:02

Doesn't the ticket have to be valid for all zones the train travels through? When Crystal Palace station was in zone 4 you had to pay extra to go to Victoria. Now that CP is in both zones 3 and 4 you can travel to Victoria with a zones 1-3 travel card.

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 4 Jul 2008 15:08

Blushingsnail wrote:Doesn't the ticket have to be valid for all zones the train travels through? When Crystal Palace station was in zone 4 you had to pay extra to go to Victoria. Now that CP is in both zones 3 and 4 you can travel to Victoria with a zones 1-3 travel card.

yes, if you are travelling on a travelcard...but if a ticket has two named stations on it then you can travel between those two stations by a reasonable route. (i.e. a "through train") A season ticket is merely a return ticket that is valid for a longer period of time...

Bram · Post by **Bram** » 4 Jul 2008 15:18

Make your lives easier and fitter - buy a bike!

lambchops · Post by **lambchops** » 4 Jul 2008 15:58

Buy a dutch bi!

Blushingsnail · Post by **Blushingsnail** » 4 Jul 2008 16:01

bensonby wrote: ... if a ticket has two named stations on it then you can travel between those two stations by a reasonable route. (i.e. a "through train") ...

But a 'reasonable route' from London Bridge to Victoria would be the service via Denmark Hill, which is in zone 2, hence the lower price. If you wanted to travel on the Crystal Palace service you'd need a more expensive ticket.

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 4 Jul 2008 16:06

Blushingsnail wrote:
bensonby wrote: ... if a ticket has two named stations on it then you can travel between those two stations by a reasonable route. (i.e. a "through train") ...
But a 'reasonable route' from London Bridge to Victoria would be the service via Denmark Hill, which is in zone 2, hence the lower price. If you wanted to travel on the Crystal Palace service you'd need a more expensive ticket.

Condition of carriage 13: "you may travel between the stations shown on the ticket you hold in: (i) a through train"

...

(f) For the purposes of this condition, a "through train" is one which may be used by a passenger to make their entire journey without changing traings"

Ipso facot a LB - LV ticket will be valid on that route. And one can alight/board at stations along that route.

Blushingsnail · Post by **Blushingsnail** » 4 Jul 2008 16:26

bensonby wrote:Condition of carriage 13: "you may travel between the stations shown on the ticket you hold in: (i) a through train"

And the following sub-section says

"(ii) trains which take the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services"

ie the LB to LV service via Denmark Hill, not Crystal Palace.

lambchops · Post by **lambchops** » 4 Jul 2008 16:27

I reckon you'll get stung!

leenewham · Post by **leenewham** » 4 Jul 2008 16:28

lambchops wrote:Buy a dutch bi!

Now your talking.

Go Dutch!

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 6 Jul 2008 10:43

Blushingsnail wrote:
bensonby wrote:Condition of carriage 13: "you may travel between the stations shown on the ticket you hold in: (i) a through train"

And the following sub-section says

"(ii) trains which take the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services"

ie the LB to LV service via Denmark Hill, not Crystal Palace.

"Trains" - plural.... that is, if you need to take multiple trains you must go the shortest route. It has no effect on the condition that allows you to take a through train.

If you buy a single ticket from LB to LV then you are perfectly entitled to take the "through train" that goes on the "crystal palace loop". You would also be entitled to get off at any station en route.

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 6 Jul 2008 10:46

lambchops wrote:I reckon you'll get stung!

I reckon you'd have an argument with an ignorant train employee....but I reckon I'll just ignore them and walk papst them as I would be acting within the law.

lambchops · Post by **lambchops** » 6 Jul 2008 23:24

walk like a papist?! how's that done, then? when you get off the train you kiss the platform?

bensonby · Post by **bensonby** » 7 Jul 2008 08:56

lambchops wrote:walk like a papist?! how's that done, then? when you get off the train you kiss the platform?

You have a spiritual spring in your step....

T Boy · Post by **T Boy** » 12 Jul 2008 00:01

This thread is quite sad.

A lot of us use the rail system and trying to publicise abuse of the rail system on a public forum is irresponsible. Ultimately it results in fare increases for the general public.

FergussonFamily · Post by **FergussonFamily** » 12 Jul 2008 12:46

If this thread is abuse of the rail ticketing system, then accountants should be prosecuted for encouraging tax evasion.

I think that they will find that there is some small print which prevents this loophole anyway.

Howard Staunton · Post by **Howard Staunton** » 12 Jul 2008 18:22

An accountant would be prosecuted for encouraging tax evasion. Tax avoidance, on the other hand, is a different matter. If one can travel by a cheaper method without breaking the ticket restrictions that seems OK to me.

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The cheaper way of commuting

The cheaper way of commuting

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