Sydenham wish list

[RJM]

It does depend on which part of Kirkdale you live, Appletree, but the 202 bus which is quite frequent goes from Kirkdale (bus stop at the bottom of Wells Park Road or in Kirkdale, just beyond Peak Hill) directly to Lower Sydenham and beyond.

It doesn't go to Lower Sydenham station though, it would be good if there was a bus which ran between the stations.

I agree with most of the list above, the big question is how we get it? There's sometimes a feeling of "the Council should do something", but they can't lower rents - so what can they do and how can we encourage it? I'd happily use most of the type of shop mentioned above!

[appletree]

I don't find Fresh and Fruity adequate as a greengrocer. Need more stock and variety.

[marymck]

On buses ...

A bus from Sydenham high street to the top of Kirkdale would be popular, and a valuable service for those with restricted mobility. Maybe one of the several buses that pass the Woodman could be rerouted to go up the hill instead of them all going through FH.

The 356 is the only bus that runs up the hill - and that takes a circuitous route to Shirley and avoids central Sydenham. It only operates every 20 mins (at best!), reducing to every 30 mins during the evening and all day on Sundays. There are no buses running after midnight and sometimes the last bus doesn't run at all.

The 363 bus used to run along Sydenham Hill, from Crystal Palace to King's Cross. I used that quite a lot when we first moved into our current house. Sadly the route was split into two under Livingston rule. This means paying for four bus trips instead of two for the same journey to and from work and having to change buses at Elephant and Castle ... with all the survival of the fittest scrum that that involves!

So beware less the powers that be try to divvy up the 176 route ... which has already been shortened to finish at the other end of Oxford Street.

On the high street ...

My number one priority for our high streets would be to protect them by making them local employment zones.

[JayB]

I wrote to TFL about 356 (it goes from nowhere in particular to nowhere! why not at least terminate in the bus station at CP where yo ucould change withother servcies) They say it runs every 30 mins due ot lack of demand- given you might have to stand 30 minutes at a stop with no shelter eg the one on Perry Rise, near us) but would take no longer to walk to more services, why might there be a lack of demand we wonder ......

[parker]

I’d say incorporate the 352 and 356 sensibly. It isn’t logical to have 3 routes out of central Sydenham to Croydon, 2 to Lewisham and just 1 route from lower Sydenham to Bromley in a part of London with no proper tube system. The current bus network isn’t ideal when you compare other area bus routes and their proximity to metropolitan centres of significant employment and leisure functions. I.e 57 Kingston - Streatham.

Why does TfL still run the 356 in its current form if there is little demand for it, was it the initial idea for 352/356 to serve as an old Hail and Ride schedule?

[marymck]

I don't believe there is little demand for the 356. It's a small bus and is often packed to the gunnels. I've frequently had to stand, juggling shopping, back from Bell Green.

As JayB said, waiting sans bus shelter for half an hour on a chilly or wet night is no joke. Often buses are cancelled and you find if you eventually give up and start to walk a 356 sails past, completely ignoring the timetable. Or if you can't walk you regularly find you have to wait shivering for 40 mins or more.

I'm not familiar with the 352 route. Does it go to Bromley? I'd love to be able to get to Bromley or Beckenham town centres without a thousand changes of bus.

I think a really popular new route would be circular: Bell Green/Forest Hill station via the current 356 route/up Sydenham Rise and down the whole length of Kirkdale/along Sydenham high Street to Bell Green. Two buses on that route: one clockwise, one anticlockwise.

I'm not suggesting that as an alternative to the 356 but as an addition.

[Likelife]

Route 352 is Lower Sydenham to Bromley North via Beckenham and West Wickham. Very useful, runs every 20 mins but takes far too long considering how close Bromley actually is. As I live right in the heart of town I walk 10 mins down the road to Penge East and get a train (more frequent than the 352) or walk down LP Ave/Sydenham Ave to the 227.

I wrote to TfL a couple years ago asking for a bus which came from Brixton/West Dulwich, avoiding Forest Hill by going up Sydenham Rise, down Kirkdale then a simple Sydenham Road, Southend Lane and Bromley Road. They said there wasn't enough demand. I'm guessing because of the railway, but I'm sceptical a direct bus at least from the high street to Bromley wouldn't be profitable. As it stands we've got 4 bus routes and six trains an hour to Croydon from the high street and nothing to Bromley. It's odd. Even extending the 450 would do.

On buses ...
The 363 bus used to run along Sydenham Hill, from Crystal Palace to King's Cross. I used that quite a lot when we first moved into our current house. Sadly the route was split into two under Livingston rule. This means paying for four bus trips instead of two for the same journey to and from work and having to change buses at Elephant and Castle ... with all the survival of the fittest scrum that that involves!

What was the reasoning behind splitting the 63? It does seem like such a silly idea and a waste of money. Especially when there is the N63. Three route numbers (63, 363, N63) when there could just be one like the 176. Merging it back sounds like an obvious way to save money. However, now with the "Hopper" fare, you shouldn't have to pay more than once in each direction, especially if you change at Honor Oak if going towards King's Cross.

[stuart]

A bus lane along the east (towards Penge) side of Lawrie Park Road.

Despite being a wide road the ever expanding width of modern cars is making it impossible for two buses (or lorries) to pass each other easily. This frequently leads to complete blockage and complicated backing to sort and a ridiculous waste of time and frustration.

Hence just one lane would make bus journeys both faster and less fraught for drivers. All traffic would benefit. Vulnerable users (peds & cyclists) would be safer. All homes on that side have off-road parking so would find it easier to get in and out.

Downsides? Many current parkers are largely commuters taking advantage of Sydenham Stations Zone 3 status. Hence trying to save a few bob to use public transport at the cost of messing up other people's does not seem fair and hence a further reason to do it. The other is that these and other parkers would migrate to the already fairly full side streets. Which leads to my second wish:

A CPZ for Sydenham. The Bromley 1 hour during the day system is a great way to protect residents from commuters. Plus the less commuters who park in Sydenham means less congestion here and in Penge etc.

Wot's not to like?

Stuart

[syd]

A

A bus lane along the east (towards Penge) side of Lawrie Park Road.

Despite being a wide road the ever expanding width of modern cars is making it impossible for two buses (or lorries) to pass each other easily. This frequently leads to complete blockage and complicated backing to sort and a ridiculous waste of time and frustration.

Hence just one lane would make bus journeys both faster and less fraught for drivers. All traffic would benefit. Vulnerable users (peds & cyclists) would be safer. All homes on that side have off-road parking so would find it easier to get in and out.

Downsides? Many current parkers are largely commuters taking advantage of Sydenham Stations Zone 3 status. Hence trying to save a few bob to use public transport at the cost of messing up other people's does not seem fair and hence a further reason to do it. The other is that these and other parkers would migrate to the already fairly full side streets. Which leads to my second wish:

A CPZ for Sydenham. The Bromley 1 hour during the day system is a great way to protect residents from commuters. Plus the less commuters who park in Sydenham means less congestion here and in Penge etc.

Wot's not to like?

Stuart

I never thought I'd say this but I agree. I travel through Loughborough junction and they have a new cpz. It turns out most of the cars there were commuters or dumped its transfrormed the area.

[appletree]

The 356 is very much in demand as the only way to get from FH to the top of Sydenham Hill. All the old people who live there depend on it and have to wait 30 mins or more for it; the hill is too steep for them to climb. Useful for those carrying shopping too. I would love it to be more frequent.

[JMLF]

I see that a mural looks to have been signed off/funded for forest hill with votes for design currently taking place on se26.life (and I assume the original website). Something like this opposite shapers/bobs wines at the station and sticky blue plaques (of what used to be on high street sites back in the day) like in CP or matching storefronts/bright pastel coloured buildings like in one stretch of Thornton Heath I feel could go a long way to making a small change with a big positive impact.