Charlecote Grove
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janefranklin
- Posts: 1
- Joined: 9 Jun 2008 14:38
- Location: Upper Sydenham
Charlecote Grove
Does anybody know of any history of Charlecote Grove? I am moving there very shortly and am interested in its past, particularly the houses on the south side next to Baxter's Fields.
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Steve Grindlay
- Posts: 606
- Joined: 4 Oct 2004 05:07
- Location: Upper Sydenham
Hi Jane
The original name of the street, from at least 1841, was Charles Street. It didn't become Charlecote Grove until the late 1920s/early '30s. I've found the history of the houses a little difficult to unravel. The numbers changed frequently, often depending on whether the person recording them regarded Bounds Cottage as Kirkdale or Charlecote Grove, and also because houses were demolished and rebuilt, or had major extensions added.
From the beginning Charles Street seemed to have had a mixed population; in 1841 there was a merchant and a lawyer, but also, in the now demolished terrace at the end, two gardeners, a coppersmith, a railway clerk and a baker.
This is the earliest detailed map I can find, the 1843 Tithe Map; Charlecote Grove begins between the two "MM"s at the bottom:
Plot 2668, above the first "M", is Bounds Cottage. Moving north, 2669 is Percy Cottage, 8 Charlecote Grove. No.2 Charlecote Grove (even today, the numbering is puzzling) was, I remember being told some years ago, created in the late 19th century, when the owner of Bounds Cottage (who also owned Percy Cottage) extended and converted to link the two, housing his servants in Percy Cottage.
The present 10 and 12 were built on plot no.2670, I imagine in the late C19th.
Plot nos.2671 and 2672 are the surviving 12-14 which makes them, with Percy Cottage, the oldest substantially intact houses in Charlecote Grove (although Percy Cottage has had more extensions). The terrace near the entrance to Baxter Field was demolished early last century, probably at the time the school was built in 1917.
This is just a starting point; you should be able to find more (and correct some of the above) in Lewisham Local History Centre.
The original name of the street, from at least 1841, was Charles Street. It didn't become Charlecote Grove until the late 1920s/early '30s. I've found the history of the houses a little difficult to unravel. The numbers changed frequently, often depending on whether the person recording them regarded Bounds Cottage as Kirkdale or Charlecote Grove, and also because houses were demolished and rebuilt, or had major extensions added.
From the beginning Charles Street seemed to have had a mixed population; in 1841 there was a merchant and a lawyer, but also, in the now demolished terrace at the end, two gardeners, a coppersmith, a railway clerk and a baker.
This is the earliest detailed map I can find, the 1843 Tithe Map; Charlecote Grove begins between the two "MM"s at the bottom:
Plot 2668, above the first "M", is Bounds Cottage. Moving north, 2669 is Percy Cottage, 8 Charlecote Grove. No.2 Charlecote Grove (even today, the numbering is puzzling) was, I remember being told some years ago, created in the late 19th century, when the owner of Bounds Cottage (who also owned Percy Cottage) extended and converted to link the two, housing his servants in Percy Cottage.
The present 10 and 12 were built on plot no.2670, I imagine in the late C19th.
Plot nos.2671 and 2672 are the surviving 12-14 which makes them, with Percy Cottage, the oldest substantially intact houses in Charlecote Grove (although Percy Cottage has had more extensions). The terrace near the entrance to Baxter Field was demolished early last century, probably at the time the school was built in 1917.
This is just a starting point; you should be able to find more (and correct some of the above) in Lewisham Local History Centre.
Charlecote Grove.
HI there,
I hope that I can throw some light on the subject on what originally was called "Charles St."
My wife was born there in "No 24 Charlecote Grove" in 1923 (plot 2675 on the map) and resided there until it was demolished by a V2 rocket that exploded in the school grounds,
Your map shows a block of four terraced cottages ref; 2674-7
The confusion regarding the numbering occurred when semi detached houses were built on the northern side of the road in the 1930's (one of which was occupied by Walter Thompson, who became Churchill's bodyguard during WW2.)
The field at the end of the road led onto the school grounds and was used to keep local tradesmen’s horses, such as "Simons Dairies" etc.
My wife remembers the families that were neighbours and to the best of her memory, no lives were lost from he four houses, although her mother was in the house when it was demolished but just suffered shock and bruises. My wife was serving in the WAAF at the time and came home a few days after the incident, when her sister's home in Panmure Road was also demolished by another V2.
I was serving in the RAF in Corsica at the time, but was informed that my parents were "bombed out" of Derby House in Trewsbury Road by a VI and again from a house in Burg hill Road. They were Air Raid Wardens and were on duty in the ARP H.Q in the dressing rooms of the old "Rink Cinema" in Silverdale at the time of the incidents.
Perhaps that gives answers to some of the questions in the forum re cinemas in Sydenham. There were three, the first being a converted roller skating Rink in Silverdale, which was equipped with a Wurlitzer Theatre Organ and later hosted all the famous organists such as Reginald Dixon, Porter-Brown, Newell and various other Reginalds! A feature with the Rink was that before "talkies", if it rained, it mattered not But when it was converted for sound, it became difficult to hear due to the rain on the corrugated iron roof"" (which was known to have several leeks in it , hence the advice given by the elders to "take an umbrella with you$"
The other was a small cinema called the "Queens Hall” which later became one of the "Classic" chain showing old films and was so called before again changing to the "Neighbourhood".
The last, built in the 30's was the "State" later to become "Granada"
We had the Kings Hall and the Odeon in Penge whilst the Penge Empire staged variety, then for a short time, films and then staged plays on the "Harry Henson" circuit.
Upper Norwood boasted the "Rialto" and the "Albany" (later to become part of rge Granada chaim0 whilst we had the "Capital" in Forest Hill.
There was also a small cinema half way along Stansted Road.
I hope that I can throw some light on the subject on what originally was called "Charles St."
My wife was born there in "No 24 Charlecote Grove" in 1923 (plot 2675 on the map) and resided there until it was demolished by a V2 rocket that exploded in the school grounds,
Your map shows a block of four terraced cottages ref; 2674-7
The confusion regarding the numbering occurred when semi detached houses were built on the northern side of the road in the 1930's (one of which was occupied by Walter Thompson, who became Churchill's bodyguard during WW2.)
The field at the end of the road led onto the school grounds and was used to keep local tradesmen’s horses, such as "Simons Dairies" etc.
My wife remembers the families that were neighbours and to the best of her memory, no lives were lost from he four houses, although her mother was in the house when it was demolished but just suffered shock and bruises. My wife was serving in the WAAF at the time and came home a few days after the incident, when her sister's home in Panmure Road was also demolished by another V2.
I was serving in the RAF in Corsica at the time, but was informed that my parents were "bombed out" of Derby House in Trewsbury Road by a VI and again from a house in Burg hill Road. They were Air Raid Wardens and were on duty in the ARP H.Q in the dressing rooms of the old "Rink Cinema" in Silverdale at the time of the incidents.
Perhaps that gives answers to some of the questions in the forum re cinemas in Sydenham. There were three, the first being a converted roller skating Rink in Silverdale, which was equipped with a Wurlitzer Theatre Organ and later hosted all the famous organists such as Reginald Dixon, Porter-Brown, Newell and various other Reginalds! A feature with the Rink was that before "talkies", if it rained, it mattered not But when it was converted for sound, it became difficult to hear due to the rain on the corrugated iron roof"" (which was known to have several leeks in it , hence the advice given by the elders to "take an umbrella with you$"
The other was a small cinema called the "Queens Hall” which later became one of the "Classic" chain showing old films and was so called before again changing to the "Neighbourhood".
The last, built in the 30's was the "State" later to become "Granada"
We had the Kings Hall and the Odeon in Penge whilst the Penge Empire staged variety, then for a short time, films and then staged plays on the "Harry Henson" circuit.
Upper Norwood boasted the "Rialto" and the "Albany" (later to become part of rge Granada chaim0 whilst we had the "Capital" in Forest Hill.
There was also a small cinema half way along Stansted Road.