Probably too busy doing his expensesbensonby wrote: I wrote to Jim Dowd last week but, as of now, received no reply.
Oyster Card introduction shut station gates
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JustMeHere
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 19 Jun 2008 06:38
- Location: Sydenham
Regarding the issuing of replacement season tickets, they are actually obliged under the various terms & conditions to issue a replacement season ticket at ANY station. I used to have a letter which quoted the exact part, as when I commuted through Canary Wharf the barriers used to mangle tickets quote regularly, but alas I don't have it any more.
Stand your ground, though!
Stand your ground, though!
Weeble, it was a light-hearted suggestion (hence the smilies) to bring a small bit of humour to a serious topic. The inventiveness of the idea amused me. Glad you liked it too.Weeble wrote:ALIB - I had some mischevious thoughts myself about arming myself with a balaclava and a job-lot of cheap bike-locks.
However, I agree that direct action might not be the best way to win round the powers that be!I'll stick to petition signing and letter writing!
Alib
I counted 6 of them doing absolutely nothing. If people can't get onto the platform without a ticket, why are there inspectors? To inspect the tickets that had just been used?
I can see the point for people getting *off* of the train, but do they really need 6 inspectors? I've only ever seen maybe 20 people at the very most get off of any given train at Sydenham in the mornings, and they all went straight on through the gates with travel or oyster cards this morning.
Could it be that the lack of gates wasn't being abused to the extent that Southern claims that it was? Hmmmmmmmmm.
I can see the point for people getting *off* of the train, but do they really need 6 inspectors? I've only ever seen maybe 20 people at the very most get off of any given train at Sydenham in the mornings, and they all went straight on through the gates with travel or oyster cards this morning.
Could it be that the lack of gates wasn't being abused to the extent that Southern claims that it was? Hmmmmmmmmm.
Yeah, I saw the gate opening this morning too. I wasn't impressed that the lady who had asked politely for entry via the intercom then had to explain she was on crutches...lambchops wrote:i saw the gate operating this morning.
loads of ticket inspectors on platform 1 this morning too.
watching the gates work.
ps - The Forest Hill side gate was again wide open with no guards in sight when I went past.
what is the procedure to use the intercom? Do they actually ask why you need it or do they just open it remotely.Weeble wrote:I can't believe people are expected to defend that they've got a 'right' to use the intercom system
Of course, they are not qualified to judge if you are "disabled enough" and if they did then they would certainly be breaking the law...
The 'current' gate procedure is thoroughly humiliating for those who have to be medically assessed via intercom and remote cctv by somebody ill-qualified and not in a position to judge.
What about (for example) autistic people, people with alzheimers or even severe asthmastics, angina sufferers etc,..? There is a possibility they could be dismissed as being drunk or capable of walking across the bridge.
To compound the issue, i bet the cost of all those ticket inspectors and CPO's will be rapidly approaching the cost for the installation of a ticket gate on the northbound platform before too long.
Ali
What about (for example) autistic people, people with alzheimers or even severe asthmastics, angina sufferers etc,..? There is a possibility they could be dismissed as being drunk or capable of walking across the bridge.
To compound the issue, i bet the cost of all those ticket inspectors and CPO's will be rapidly approaching the cost for the installation of a ticket gate on the northbound platform before too long.
Ali
Interesting point about autism. I actually heard a discussion as I was walking through to platform 1 this morning between what I assume was the manager and the person who operates the gate.
The manager said something along the lines of "he/she needs to be let through - he/she's autistic" which suggests that the person who operated the gate did not understand or appreciate this disability enough to deem that person worthy enough to pass through the gate. Perhaps that person thought that the person was artistic and thought "that's not a disability". Let's have some awareness training for people who operate the gate. We shoudl have an NVQ for such things. "How to recognise if someone is really disabled or not".
Maybe they should put guidance up by the intercom stating what conditions are acceptable and those which are not.
Autism - yes. But only if the operator knows what it is.
Heart condition - on production of a valid prescription shown to the camera.
Asthma - only if you are wheezing so much you can't speak into the intercom.
What a joke.
The manager said something along the lines of "he/she needs to be let through - he/she's autistic" which suggests that the person who operated the gate did not understand or appreciate this disability enough to deem that person worthy enough to pass through the gate. Perhaps that person thought that the person was artistic and thought "that's not a disability". Let's have some awareness training for people who operate the gate. We shoudl have an NVQ for such things. "How to recognise if someone is really disabled or not".
Maybe they should put guidance up by the intercom stating what conditions are acceptable and those which are not.
Autism - yes. But only if the operator knows what it is.
Heart condition - on production of a valid prescription shown to the camera.
Asthma - only if you are wheezing so much you can't speak into the intercom.
What a joke.
I had a chat this morning to the ticket inspectors - or revenue protection officers as the writing on their badges told me. They actualy told me they were there for 'customer recovery' purposes but were at a loss to actually explain what this meant. In reality they were just 'observing'.
We talked about a number of things (it was a lovely morning after all) including the gate on platform 1. Her expectation was that the gate would be opened to anyone who would have trouble using the steps - including mums / dads / carers / anybody else with buggies, shoppers with heavy bags, travellers with suitcases etc. No need to prove a 'disability'.
She did say it was not her 'department' though. It seems she was right in this regard as other posters suggest the station staff require details of disability.
Has anyone actually asked the station staff what they have been asked to do? i.e. what have they been advised is necessary for them to open the gate. This will likely be different to any official communication / policy.
If I've time I'll ask them tomorrow - lets see if we get a consistent set of responses.
We talked about a number of things (it was a lovely morning after all) including the gate on platform 1. Her expectation was that the gate would be opened to anyone who would have trouble using the steps - including mums / dads / carers / anybody else with buggies, shoppers with heavy bags, travellers with suitcases etc. No need to prove a 'disability'.
She did say it was not her 'department' though. It seems she was right in this regard as other posters suggest the station staff require details of disability.
Has anyone actually asked the station staff what they have been asked to do? i.e. what have they been advised is necessary for them to open the gate. This will likely be different to any official communication / policy.
If I've time I'll ask them tomorrow - lets see if we get a consistent set of responses.
can anyone think of any (legal) direct action that can be taken. Quite frankly Southern trains are taking the urine... I had the misfortune to be on the last carriage of the train getting into sydenham from London bridge yesterday evening - it took me a good 5mins to get out of the station as everyone tried to filter through the 3 gates and whilst people tried to get into the station....
Its a farce.
Additionally, no railway staff are qualified to assess the "validity" of someones disability and the current setup is in clear breach of s.21 of the DDA1995 as I wrote in that letter. If I do not get a satisfactory answer from Southern railway I'll be in touch with the rail ombudsmun and will seriously consider instructing soliciters...
Its a farce.
Additionally, no railway staff are qualified to assess the "validity" of someones disability and the current setup is in clear breach of s.21 of the DDA1995 as I wrote in that letter. If I do not get a satisfactory answer from Southern railway I'll be in touch with the rail ombudsmun and will seriously consider instructing soliciters...
I had to ask 3 times for the gate attendent to let me through with my bags this morning before her attention could be drawn from the conversation she was having with another attendent. Even then she suggested that I go through the automatic gates despite my having a shoulder bag that was wider than they were. This is while there were 2 people behind me, one on crutches.
Hurrah.
Hurrah.
Once again, 6 or so ticket inspectors this morning...one checked my gf's ticket and said "No, this expired on the 28th" - she made a mistake.
I don't think my laughing helped.
Anyway, why the hell arn't these ticket inspectors on the other platform with a portable reader and the gate open?
It's just stupid.
Revenue protection. Yeah, right....so they money they "save" protecting their revenue goes to paying people to stand behind a barrier not doing much because the barriers are there for that reason...I doubt the revenue saved would cover their wages and benefits.
wankers.
I don't think my laughing helped.
Anyway, why the hell arn't these ticket inspectors on the other platform with a portable reader and the gate open?
It's just stupid.
Revenue protection. Yeah, right....so they money they "save" protecting their revenue goes to paying people to stand behind a barrier not doing much because the barriers are there for that reason...I doubt the revenue saved would cover their wages and benefits.
wankers.
It's a massive retrograde step in terms of access - it's only months since they enlarged the exit gate on platform 2 to prevent passengers bottlenecking when the main ticket office entrance was closed. Now we're down to one entrance with clearly inadequate ticket gates, and the other entrance closed off to everyone apart from those who can "prove" a disability or other access requirement.bensonby wrote:can anyone think of any (legal) direct action that can be taken. Quite frankly Southern trains are taking the urine... I had the misfortune to be on the last carriage of the train getting into sydenham from London bridge yesterday evening - it took me a good 5mins to get out of the station as everyone tried to filter through the 3 gates and whilst people tried to get into the station....
I wouldn't be surprised if there is a valid legal point relating to the basis of the grounds on which they are allowed to refuse access - how can they assess via an intercom and CCTV camera who is eligible and who is not eligible to use the gate. And if they can't do this, on what grounds can they refuse access to anyone who requests it?Additionally, no railway staff are qualified to assess the "validity" of someones disability and the current setup is in clear breach of s.21 of the DDA1995 as I wrote in that letter. If I do not get a satisfactory answer from Southern railway I'll be in touch with the rail ombudsmun and will seriously consider instructing soliciters...
If you wanted to undermine the ridiculous system, could you not prove that had no right to deny anyone access, and then utilise the intercom with such frequency that it would be more cost effective for them to fully open the side gate again?
What would happen if the gate accidentally got wedged open? Would staff have to go to 'free' the gate to prevent passengers taking the sensible (and perfectly legal) exit from the station. I'm no legal expert but I do not believe that wedging a gate open is a criminal offense. Should it go to court I believe the passenger would have reasonable grounds due to the safety concerns they had with so many people crowding the bridge and the ticket barrier.bensonby wrote:can anyone think of any (legal) direct action that can be taken.
Given the crowding on the bridge I predict an imminent outbreak of gephyrophobia (fear of bridges) in Sydenham which may prevent significant numbers of passengers needing to use the exit at platform 1.
Can somebody provide a guide on pronunciation for all the sufferers on forum so that they can adequately explain their condition to the staff via the intercom?
Just for the record, I know somebody who does suffer from this condition and would not open her eyes whenever we crossed the Forth Road Bridge. It is a real condition and should be taken seriously by railway staff.