The Sydenham Society

[Larky]

Sorry, I may have the wrong angle on this but are you saying that the Committee decide themselves on a stance to be taken without consulting the general members ?

[Robin Orton]

Yes.

[Pat Trembath]

The Sydenham Society has several committees -

An Executive Committee which is proposed and voted on at the Annual General Meeting. This consists of a Chair, Secretary and Treasurer as well as the Chairs of our committees consisting of ordinary members interested in Roads and Transport, Conservation and Planning and Events and several additional members who have some spare time.

We welcome new members, and I mean paid up Sydenham Society members, to join these committees, especially anyone who comes with expertise and has some time to spare.

Conservation and Planning in particular needs people who can read and understand planning applications along with understanding how they might fit in with the National Plan, the London Plan and the Local Plan. New planning applications are discussed at monthly meetings. Anyone reading this who is a member and has experience in planning, please get in touch.

A number of applications are discussed with Lewisham's planners at pre-application stage, particularly the larger developments, and this is when developers can be advised to meet members of the Sydenham Society, in order to better understand possible local concerns. This is where confidentiality is important. We, the Sydenham Society, have no idea whether the development will take place, the application be amended or the site be sold on.

I think I have done my level best over the past five days to explain what the society does. I've belonged to the society for over 40 years and have been a committee member for 30. I stood down from the Executive in 2008 but I still serve on the Conservation and Planning committee and the Events Committee.

For information: there are 800 such civic societies across the UK, some 200 in London. I think we serve our communities well.

[JayB]

I'm sure the Sydenham Society has done excellent work. But it is 2017 not 1977 and many local societies as you describe now regularly canvass opinions- including from non-members- via electronic surveys, two-way social media and public consultations. How, for example, do you even know what the priorities for the current population of Sydenham are?

There may or may not be committees but none the less I think people expect in these times transparency and to at least be invited to put their ideas forward without having to stand for committtee membership- a stance which is known to rule out some demographic groups.Obviously all societies suffer the frustration of people saying what should be done and not helping do it, but suggestions in themselves are no bad things and , as they say tehre are more than one ways of skinning a cat such as encouraging self start and pro-active volunteers..

We were considering joining and would have suggested an update of communications to improve upon after-the -event newsletters that are inevitably entirely one way and would have been willing to volunteer to help but I am sorry , although i am sure the Society means well, and I'm glad to read of your successes- something which as Pally suggested would be great to paste on your website front page and would only have taken us 10 minutes to do.I However, I see Pally was roasted for merely suggesting this .Thanks for your efforts but the content and tone of this thread are not what we were expecting and seems a little too "take it or leave it" for our tastes.

[Pally]

I'm sure the Sydenham Society has done excellent work. But it is 2017 not 1977 and many local societies as you describe now regularly canvass opinions- including from non-members- via electronic surveys, two-way social media and public consultations. How, for example, do you even know what the priorities for the current population of Sydenham are?

There may or may not be committees but none the less I think people expect in these times transparency and to at least be invited to put their ideas forward without having to stand for committtee membership- a stance which is known to rule out some demographic groups.Obviously all societies suffer the frustration of people saying what should be done and not helping do it, but suggestions in themselves are no bad things and , as they say tehre are more than one ways of skinning a cat such as encouraging self start and pro-active volunteers..

We were considering joining and would have suggested an update of communications to improve upon after-the -event newsletters that are inevitably entirely one way and would have been willing to volunteer to help but I am sorry , although i am sure the Society means well, and I'm glad to read of your successes- something which as Pally suggested would be great to paste on your website front page and would only have taken us 10 minutes to do.I However, I see Pally was roasted for merely suggesting this .Thanks for your efforts but the content and tone of this thread are not what we were expecting and seems a little too "take it or leave it" for our tastes.

JayB, some helpful points. I expect my circumstances to change fairly soon and was planning on joining, as I love Sydenham and am genuinely interested in seeing it develop. I also think that my experience might be useful in certain aspects of the SS work as I am sure many others would be. However I have to say that I am loathe to go for it now and I agree that others may well be put off which is sad. I will definitely attend the Assembly to see for myself, when the opportunity arises. You may wish to do the same, or perhaps you already have!
Regarding people saying what should be done and not helping, there are often very valid reasons why this is the case, and if making suggestions is all they can offer at a particular time, then that is better than nothing and does not automatically make them an Armchair Critic in a negative way. Your point about demographic groups is a very valid one.

I do know that the Sydenham Society does good stuff for Sydenham and I know that there are people giving up their own time to assist with that which is very creditable. Others may offer something different or complementary which is equally valid.

[Manwithaview1]

Constructive criticism is good. Tweaking things is good.

[Pally]

Constructive criticism is good. Tweaking things is good.

Yup!

[sydnami]

For what it's worth, I'm a member of the Sydenham Society and value what they do - but it does feel like their remit is more about protecting our heritage than painting an inspiring vision for what Sydenham could be and putting pressure on our councillors and supporting local businesses to make that happen. You could (rightly) argue that our councillors should be more proactive in doing this themselves. The Sydenham Society is different in what it's trying to achieve from organisations like Penge Tourist Board or Peckham Vision, and does a good job at what it sets out to do (IMO).. but I do wish there was something or someone who was 'thinking bigger'.

[Pally]

For what it's worth, I'm a member of the Sydenham Society and value what they do - but it does feel like their remit is more about protecting our heritage than painting an inspiring vision for what Sydenham could be and putting pressure on our councillors and supporting local businesses to make that happen. You could (rightly) argue that our councillors should be more proactive in doing this themselves. The Sydenham Society is different in what it's trying to achieve from organisations like Penge Tourist Board or Peckham Vision, and does a good job at what it sets out to do (IMO).. but I do wish there was something or someone who was 'thinking bigger'.

That's an interesting perspective and food for thought sydnami. I don't think anyone is not aware of or unappreciative of what the SS does from the comments made on here. Other perspectives and ideas can be useful for any organisation or group if looked at creatively ...I have no idea if other members of the SS including other Committee members, read this forum or this thread but hopefully if they do they will also find food for thought.

[SteveG85]

I think it’s great that Pat has responded to some of the comments about the Sydenham Society. I don’t think anyone doubts the good intentions of the Society’s members and committees and I know from experience that it can be exasperating when you devote your free time to help the community and people don’t agree with how you go about it.

That said, the Society presents itself as representing the community so I think it’s completely valid for members of the community to raise concerns or frustrations if they feel the Society’s actions are unhelpful. I find the idea that people should have to pay the Society a membership fee for the privilege of doing so bizarre.

I think the Society’s work on transport issues and objections to train timetable changes in particular are great, but I find their inability to foresee or even acknowledge the consequences of their objections to planning applications strange. For example their objection to Antic’s plans to redevelop the site and open a pub to replace the Windmill on Kirkdale and their comments about Nandos deliveries from Cobbs Corner. It seems obvious to me that if Nandos are prevented from offering delivery then they are less likely to open the restaurant.

I agree that some sort of public record of objections that the Society has made to developments would be really useful. I know there is a lot of frustration from businesses that have opened in Sydenham but faced increased planning costs and delays because of the Society's objections. Sydenham is developing a reputation as somewhere that potential new businesses face a battle to open. The contrast to places like Penge or Peckham is obvious

[Beninahurry]

Morning everyone
I have been a member of Sydenham Society for a few years and I now sit on the Executive Committee.
One of the areas I'm keen to develop is how we can engage with and communicate to the local community. It's good to see some positive ideas and suggestions on this thread which are ones we will be discussing and hopefully implementing some over the coming months. Pat and I will bring these up at the next EC meeting.
There is a lot of great work that the EC and other volunteers do and a lot of it does go unnoticed and sometimes misunderstood. Improved comms will certainly help this.
An example is Nandos. Sydenham Society were not meddling and being obstructive, they were working with the council, planning officers and meeting Nando representatives on site to hopefully ensure proper parking provisions are provided for delivery vans and bikes. Several people expressed concerns that bikes would be parked on pavements blocking safe pedestrian passage. The Society hopefully will help to ensure a designated place for Nando vehicles and the safety of the local community who will walk past. The Society also worked with Nandos to ensure local residents above the unit aren't affected by fumes from their kitchen.
It is great that there is such interest and ideas on how we can help make Sydenham an even better place to live and work. We definitely welcome positive contributions and these will be reviewed when the EC meet. I would though ask that we respect and appreciate the volunteers please who have given decades of service for the local community. The matter of how we can improve engagement and communication is one I'll be carrying forward and hopefully you'll see some progress soon! If you are keen to get involved in any way please let me know.
Thank you and have a great weekend
Ben

[simon]

Thanks Ben and welcome to the Forum.
Have a great one yourself.

[parker]

Why is it only just now all these people from the Sydenham Society are starting to speak on this forum? Are they quietly watching what's being said here anonymously and now piping up because people are talking about it and slating it.

What I'd like to know is, why is it only just now that this forum is being bombarded with answers regarding Nando's and that the real issue behind the scenes is the delivery service? While I admire Pat Trembath's posts as a general rule because they are usually extremely informative why wasn't the Nando's issue explained on here before when forum members were showing their support and leaving comments regarding Nando's on Lewisham's Planning portal.

If the Sydenham Society want to improve communication regarding new ideas, blah blah blah, etc etc etc - then isn't this forum one of the most finite mediums in which to do all that stuff? I.e. If Sydenham Society was in support of Nando's all along why has it only just become common knowledge amongst this forum?

[Beninahurry]

Thank you Simon!

Parker, one of the reasons I haven't checked in to view comments for ages or joined before is some people make this forum quite a negative, critical place. Slating people who are trying to help isn't really a positive thing to do. It's a shame when the forum is like this as it doesn't really encourage people to stick around and contribute.

I have only recently become more active with the Sydenham Society and thankfully I have a degree on finite mediums for communication so hopefully my skills can help the society to make Sydenham a greater place to live and work.

In regards to Nandos, the society hasn't always supported the planning application due to the issues I mentioned in my post. Sometimes you have to object to something in order to bring about improvements. Hopefully, following our meetings and discussions, local residents won't suffer from obstructions on the pavement or kitchen fumes.

Ideally this forum can be a constructive, positive place and then we might have more people piping up. Or we'll just have people wanting to avoid it!

Have a great day everyone
Ben

[mosy]

Beninahurry: First welcome I hope you'll try to keep us up to date as well as Pam Trembath on potential new developments.

I tend to feel as parker just said that if there's no good information to work with then negative speculation tends to prevail when potential projects stall or fail altogether. What would you or anyone expect other than frustration turning to exasperation? The council portal is of limited help.

Pat Trembath said that some early discussions needed to be kept confidential, which is fair enough, but that wouldn't prevent giving an outline view on here of the Society's general attitude with reasons to a proposal and preferably updates as and when. The Society or any of its members could pop in here immediately to quell false rumours immediately but choose not to.

Maybe with your degree knowledge it might say that you could get your (the Society's) standpoint in at the outset on proposed developments where you have taken a stand? Then you wouldn't need to criticise speculation, especially if the overall intention is to get people on side proactively. Just a thought.

[Pally]

Hi Ben

It's really good to hear that engagement and communication with the local community is something the Sydenham Society is keen to develop and that intended constructive and positive suggestions and comments on this thread will be considered. It would be good for things that the SS/EC are doing to be better understood and would hopefully address some of the on-going negativity/ on going assumptions made about the SS on this forum, which may or may not be valid and which Pat helpfully responded to at the start of this thread

[quote="Beninahurry"] An example is Nandos. Sydenham Society were not meddling and being obstructive, they were working with the council, planning officers and meeting Nando representatives on site to hopefully ensure proper parking provisions are provided for delivery vans and bikes. Several people expressed concerns that bikes would be parked on pavements blocking safe pedestrian passage. The Society hopefully will help to ensure a designated place for Nando vehicles and the safety of the local community who will walk past. The Society also worked with Nandos to ensure local residents above the unit aren't affected by fumes from their kitchen. [quote"Beninahurry"]

Good news!

[quote"Beninahurry"] It is great that there is such interest and ideas on how we can help make Sydenham an even better place to live and work. We definitely welcome positive contributions and these will be reviewed when the EC meet. I would though ask that we respect and appreciate the volunteers please who have given decades of service for the local community. The matter of how we can improve engagement and communication is one I'll be carrying forward and hopefully you'll see some progress soon! If you are keen to get involved in any way please let me know. [quote"Beninahurry"]

This forum is potentially one way for the SS and other groups to hear about community views and comments. With regard to this thread, acknowledgement of volunteers who have given time to serve Sydenham and done great work has been given several times by a range of posters. Similarly the achievements of the Sydenham Society over the years has been recognised by a number of posters. As a result of Pat's initial very useful post, I posted some comments that were intended to be constructive and helpful and this was followed by some other suggestions and some comments from others about possible ways forward. It is unfortunate that an impression developed that constructive suggestions were pointless but it is good to know that this is not the case.

Mosy's suggestions ( "Pat Trembath said that some early discussions needed to be kept confidential, which is fair enough, but that wouldn't prevent giving an outline view on here of the Society's general attitude with reasons to a proposal and preferably updates as and when. The Society or any of its members could pop in here immediately to quell false rumours immediately ") also seem helpful in terms of trying to avoid the inevitable negativity that can develop through lack of information. Even if historically there has been a negative view of this forum, it remains a potentially very useful communication and possibly recruitment tool and it would be great if it could move forward in that vein with the Sydenham Society.

As I have said previously I expect my circumstances to change fairly soon and if they do I will definitely be keen to get further involved!

[Tim Lund]

I have a degree on finite mediums for communication

What does this mean?

[Beninahurry]

Thanks for the feedback and ideas everyone. Agree on informing people will avoid the void issue! Will raise these at the next EC meeting and see what we can release and when. I'll try and not abbreviate the society to the SS though! My degree is in comms and marketing Tim so hopefully I can find time to put these to good use for the society. All the best