sydenham needs an uplifting

[KPR]

?

Well aren't you?

Feel free to correct me, but my distinct impression is that everyone commenting here wants the high street to be 'nicer' in some way, and though they may differ in the detail, they all mean fewer pound shops, betting shops, pawn shops, and chicken shops and more coffee shops, vintage shops (of the type parodied by Harry Enfield in 'We Saw You Coming'), upscale butchers and greengrocers (with 'nice' signs outside), gastropubs, etc. Result - area more in demand, house prices increase.

[SydenhamOwl]

Anyone know what's going on with the area between Sydenham Beds and Kent House Road? Wasn't there supposed to be something going on there?

There's also that development closer to the train station which is taking shape (with retail space on the ground floor) and I have seen activity in what was Connaught Leisure and Beer Rebellion recently. You would assume/hope they'll be taken over by something interesting.

On another seperate note, does anyone know why Acorn moved 100 yards up the high street?

[monkeyarms]

"No issues with the jumble trail idea per se, but if you get a single participant on the local estates I'd be very surprised."

That wasn't the case with the Penge jumble trail - there was a massive number of participants of all backgrounds. Lots of blocks of flats taking part using communal spaces.

[Mattyroon]

"No issues with the jumble trail idea per se, but if you get a single participant on the local estates I'd be very surprised."

That wasn't the case with the Penge jumble trail - there was a massive number of participants of all backgrounds. Lots of blocks of flats taking part using communal spaces.

Agreed, I think the jumble trail could be a very inclusive event, whether people want to participate via there own stall or just come along and get involved on the day. I've never been to one before but will definitely be around for sydenhams first.

KPR - any thoughts on why the "local estates" wouldn't get involved in a community event??

[KPR]

Fair enough - I guess we'll see on the 11th. I hope it does succeed. I passed someone on Silverdale on the weekend holding their own impromptu sale of food and drink to raise money for the kids, as they put it. So I guess it might work.

Re: the possible developments between KPR and Kent House Road on Sydenham Road, these have bounced backwards and forwards in planning for some time - the issues basically being that the various proposals are too big and intrusive in the eyes of the local residents, especially given the lack of any proposed parking provision and the bad parking situation that already exists in the area. There's a proposal for a large block opposite the Hexagon building on the other side of the road (replacing the existing house and shops) but this hasn't so far passed. Ditto the proposed housing replacing the shops and the partially demolished building. Personally I agree with the objections - a large block or blocks would bring more cars with nowhere to park and a lot more rubbish to blow all over the road from the no doubt overflowing bins (as from the current flats at the end of KPR). That said, if they build something a bit bigger than the current shop on the corner (empty) and the house next to it, fine.

[leenewham]

?

Well aren't you?

Feel free to correct me, but my distinct impression is that everyone commenting here wants the high street to be 'nicer' in some way, and though they may differ in the detail, they all mean fewer pound shops, betting shops, pawn shops, and chicken shops and more coffee shops, vintage shops (of the type parodied by Harry Enfield in 'We Saw You Coming'), upscale butchers and greengrocers (with 'nice' signs outside), gastropubs, etc. Result - area more in demand, house prices increase.

I've tried to not comment on this thread, but this is one thing that really narks me!

It's often the case that making high streets nicer places to be is seen as 'gentrification. It's not. It's making high streets nicer.
Sydenham house prices have gone up dramatically in the last 9 years since I've lived here, but the high street has hardly changed in that time. A few coffee shops have opened, but it's just a drop in the ocean.

High streets tend to change after the demographics start to change. It can take a long long time for a high street to change after that. People move to areas for transport (the biggest factor in rising house prices in Sydenham in recent years), schools, housing stock and available space, location, prices and then the high street.

A few nicer signs and a tidier street won't push your house prices up, but it will make the high street a nice place to be, attract more footfall and benefit the shops.

There is nothing wrong with making an area look proud of itself rather than shabby and unloved. There is nothing wrong with people getting involved in their local community to make their area better.

Lastly, can we please stop using 'middle class' as a term. No-one really knows what it means or who is in it. I'm against labeling people, like 'millenials' etc. It's lazy generalization.

[stuart]

Lastly, can we please stop using 'middle class' as a term. No-one really knows what it means or who is in it. I'm against labeling people, like 'millenials' etc. It's lazy generalization.

+1

Please add 'young professionals' when they mean what we used to call 'white collar' workers rather than qualified members of a professional body. Personally I think it insulting and divisive not to think the rich necessarily don't like pound shops or blue collar workers don't like a nice cup of coffee.

IMHO the sad streets are those that don't offer both. Stoke Newington - I'm looking at you.

Stuart

[Pally]

Offering both and being clean and cared for would be good! And I agree with Lee about "gentrification" ...stupid term! As is middle class and as Stuart says , "young professionals"!!! Its just people !

[KPR]

Hmmm, I'm not against the place looking nice - I said so at the start, in referring to the pavements and trees. I'd add that removing the ugly railings has also helped. To pretend that 'gentrification' has no impact on house prices is complete nonsense though - people don't just move to an area because of good transport links (though clearly that is one factor). Dulwich Village has utterly crap transport yet its house prices are way above Sydenham's. Why's that then? Err maybe because if you move there you can be pretty sure you'll be surrounded by rich people like you (you in the sense of people who can afford those prices, not you personally). Pretend that social class doesn't exist if you want - it won't make it true.

Are you really going to pretend that if the kebab shops and bookies all bought their signs from one of your approved suppliers, you'd be happy with the way the high street looked? Pull the other one.

[Syddersisters]

Good news! There are now 25 locals hosting a yard sale for Jumble Trail this Sunday 11th June. Everyone's welcome to shop or sell something. Leafleting is extremely labour intensive so we are relying on the friendly folk to spread the word via all social channels.

If anyone can attend the Sydenham Assembly on 10th June - It might be a good time to raise concerns about the High Street! Let us think of some ways to bring more life to the High Street...Pengetout is a lovely gift shop with cheap & expensive things - 11 locals run it and they had funding support...

Have you seen this link it used to be a cinema where Coop was! https://lewishamlostcinemas.wordpress.c ... t-cinemas/

Yes, I agree it's a huge unit to fill...perhaps good stores like Argos, TKMaxx, Poundland or better dreaming of Waitrose or Bowling...

[leenewham]

Gentrification is the most overused term I've heard in connection with high streets.

There are different income levels. No-one is disputing this. What I'm disputing is that the old fashioned 'working/middle/upper class system no longer applies and I wish that people wouldn't brand people 'middle class' when they don't know what it means.

Dulwich Village is surrounded by extremely large houses. It's always been 'nice' and expensive. It has lots of very good schools surrounding it, not to mention the College. It's next to a very lovely park. The village is lovely, but it doesn't have much there. Comparing it to Sydenham is a little silly.

I'm not pretending anything KPR. I've designed Kebab shops by the way, they can look great. There is nothign wrong with kebab shops or charity shops (I use these more than any other). I can give you examples if you liked. And yes, I would be proud of how a high street looked. Any business can look great if well designed.

In all the high streets I've been involved with, making the high street look and feel like a nicer, place to shop in hasn't in any way made house prices go up, but it has improved shops business.

So I'm not pulling anything.

[simon]

Cant get a bet on in Dulwich Village; no bookies

[Pally]

I do think that whatever the shop, the frontage etc makes a big difference to the overall effect in a High Street ...as Lee says, kebab shops, charity shops , betting shops or whatever ...all have a place and they don't have to look a mess or "take over" because of colour schemes/ dirty or run down frontages which just spoil the area! I like the variety in Sydenham as it happens! I still think much could be improved

[Mayowthorpe]

Instead of whining, how about get up and try out The Journey Cafe on Kirkdale.

https://twitter.com/journey_cafe

[Pally]

Instead of whining, how about get up and try out The Journey Cafe on Kirkdale.

https://twitter.com/journey_cafe

!!!

[Leese]

I think the people on this thread are (me included) all clearly middle class and so have an interest in gentrification to make our houses worth more. Going back way up to the top, most of Sydenham lives in social housing or at the bottom of the PRS and if they eat out it won't be in On the Hoof - the high street serves them more than it serves us, and expecting it to become Clapham is ultimately wishing for a different social mix in this area. .

Good lord, no.

In fact, one of the reasons I like Sydenham so much is that it's generally *not* full of people with your attitude. What a revolting post.

I haven't tried On The Hoof yet. I hear it's very nice, but I'd best not, since I live in social housing.

[Pally]

KPR wrote: [quote]"I think the people on this thread are (me included) all clearly middle class and so have an interest in gentrification to make our houses worth more. Going back way up to the top, most of Sydenham lives in social housing or at the bottom of the PRS and if they eat out it won't be in On the Hoof - the high street serves them more than it serves us, and expecting it to become Clapham is ultimately wishing for a different social mix in this area. ."[quote]

Er ....rather a lot of generalisations here!! "More than it serves us" ...who is this "us" then? In my experience On the Hoof has a very mixed and diverse clientele!!

[KPR]

Sorry, I think people are getting the wrong end of the stick - I have eaten in On The Hoof, Chef's Delight, the various greasy spoons, the pubs, McDs at Bell Green, etc. I am not arguing for the abolition of the lower end - and going back to my earlier post, if it's a choice between a supermarket that stays empty and McDonald's then I would absolutely prefer the latter. Nicer shops do equal higher house prices though, all things being equal - a more reasonable comparison with Sydenham being East Dulwich perhaps. I've lived round here long enough to remember that area as a right dump, yet it's now becoming a mini Nappy Valley like Clapham. Do the shops come before or after that? Good question, but even if it's after, the fact that there's a Jojo Maman Bebe outlet is going to attract a certain kind of wealthier potential resident and stick a few grand on the price of your average house.

However, I've been to On The Hoof enough times to know that it's not frequented by the same clientele as Chef's Delight. So again, pull the other one. It isn't priced for people on low incomes or benefits - and neither is B&G, a more serious point in my view (see above) as it means that the park cafe is a very visible sign of the class divide (that's right - get used to class rhetoric, as it's now very possible that Tony Benn's mini-me will be PM within a year) in Sydenham. But it's OK because their builder nailed some old planks to the wall inside and they wrote some ludicrous hipster platitudes on the wall in chalk. Surely justifies the prices. Lewisham better be charging them a decent rent because they are absolutely printing money in that place, despite taking 30 minutes to knock up a toastie. I bet they're paying peppercorn though.

Would love to see some tasteful kebab shop signs.

[Pally]

Well I visit both Chefs delight and On the Hoof and so have you ....so that's two of us! As it happens I have seen others in both, plus a good few in Hilltop , the one opposite, Kente and On the Hoof. So I still think its a generalisation based on ....what?? Having said that I cant comment on the park cafe ...but is there actually anything wrong with what it provides?? Actually, cheaper would make it more widely accessible to park users so maybe I have answered my own question!!

[KPR]

Yes, we might have, but if you're going to claim you've seen the same working class families with their kids in both On The Hoof and Chef's Delight then sorry, but I don't believe you. Cherry and Ice of all of them comes closest to crossing that divide as it's combining a faintly hipster vibe with cheaper prices - I guess they can afford to though as the rent on what seems to be an alleyway with a roof must be quite cheap.

The park cafe (B&G) - food is OK. Not as brilliant as some would have you believe though. Best bit about it is the setting, and that was nothing to do with them as the building has been there for decades. Downsides are price and the ludicrously slow service. I understand why they run a pay first approach (as opposed to table service) given the ease of legging it from there, but both the counter service and the speed of food preparation are piss poor for a cafe. The price is definitely beyond the means of most on the housing estate which is right next to it. They could have had a simpler cafe with lower prices - and food which is still fine and faster service - which would have been a lot fairer in my view.

(I happen to have kept an eye on how they run the kitchen on the occasions when I've been stuck in their horrific queues, and the people cooking are so slow it looks like they've been tranquillised. It used to speed up a bit when one or both of the miserable snooty twins that own it turned up but haven't seen them in there for ages - presumably they're sat at home counting their cash.)