Namaste site looking hideous!

[Kingfisher78]

I am uploading some pictures of the old Namaste site. I walked past a few days ago completely shocked as to how the area looked, and yesterday while walking past again, I saw that there was no change. For those who have not seen the site yet, the wooden raised beds where the hedges were have completely fallen apart, with soil spilling out onto the street. Can someone from the Council please clear this up? It looks hideous.

it is important that we build a sense of community via our monthly market and community activities. However, if Sydenham begins to look the way the Namaste and Connaught Leisure site currently does, then frankly the only message this is conveying is to discourage local residents from shopping or taking part in activities on the High Street and visitors from coming to Sydenham again.

Additionally, I feel sorry for the brilliant Trattoria, positioned only one door away from both the dilapidated Namaste and Connaught Leisure site, and the now closed barbers next door, with no shop signage. People will be put off of sitting outside Trattoria and enjoying their meal, with such a view.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141957545 ... res/z019CS

[syd-gal]

Has the Chinese takeaway next to Namaste changed hands recently? And what was the reason for Nameste closing? I know there was a notice on the door but I didn't get round to reading it.

[monkeyarms]

I think the Namaste chain went bust. Could be wrong. Though the Connaught Leisure mentioned above is at least a work in progress: it will eventually be flats with office space on the ground floor.

[pip]

Yes the chinese has changed hands recently and I must say the food has improved a great deal under the new management.
I now order from there at least once a week.

[JayB]

Unfortunately, as the upper end of the high street improves, the Lower Sydenham end gets worse and worse and even more neglected. It is a run of tail to tail traffic, semi- derelection and ugliness from Lidl on Sydenham Road right round to the hideous entrance to Bell Green retail park with its naff signage and litter. Check out the Sports Direct frontage

[leenewham]

Sydenham Road is in a dire state at present, probably the worst in the 9 years I've lived here. See3 has totally failed long term under its current management despite a great effort by all involved and some rather poor top own micromanagement. While Forest Hill has done well, Sydenham seems to have stalled, even after millions were spent on new pavements.

You have to ask why? There are so many examples of schemes that have worked, yet the gatekeepers of Sydenham seem to have ignored all the advice various people have given over the years. Look at West Norwood, Forest Hill, Penge.

The powers that be in Sydenham, especially those that say 'they want a vibrant high street' seem to have no idea how to achieve it.

It's such a shame for those who are a credit to Sydenham, like On The Hoof, Billings, Trattoria, Sugarhill (nice signwriting Chris by the way, it was Nick Garret?) etc. They deserve better.

[sydres]

Unfortunately I agree. It's a shame as this area has so much going for it in terms of community and open green space but is routinely let down by a Council that appears painfully slow at getting things done and reluctant to listening to good advice by people who know what ingredients are required to help make a vibrant high street.

[Pally]

I agree too. I was very disappointed as I could not get to the Assembly last week, as I was away, when I believe some consultation was taking place but does anyone know what happened there?

[leenewham]

There was a questionnaire which was rather pointless with very generic questions that didn't really seem to want to solve or define any problems. It just seemed to ask what things the council already does that we prefer.

I wouldn't call it a consultation!

[JayB]

I have found the council get very defensive when tackled about Lower Sydenham. I went to a council meeting where i backed a young people's forum who said there was nothing here for them and the shops in Forest Hill were much nicer ( top end of High Road and nice shops mentioned already in the thread excepted) You should have seen the faces on the panel!

I find it bizarre that a lot of the High Road seems in a different ward to the people who actually live adjacent to it. I remember they canvassed for ideas about doing up the Lower Sydenham end several years ago but i don't see any action - they seem unable even to get MacDonalds to pick up the litter its customers lob out off their car windows/ drop on the pavements in the area. Any one know who exactly we should write to on this wider subject ( ie state of the High Road)?

[Likelife]

I've said it for a while Lewisham council are almost useless. Everyone I speak to wonders what on earth the council actually does with the council tax money. They can't be bothered just to get basic things like the banners to be fixed. Our MP is almost invisible and it doesn't help that Sydenham is in 6 wards in 3 boroughs. Sydenham is being let down time and time again, something needs to change.

[sugahill cafe]

@Lee Newham yep designed and painted by Nick Garrett very happy with it. And would also agree that something needs to change. Chris

[sparticus]

Perhaps someone can explain why Forest Hill is so bloody marvellous and Sydenham is so crap when both are within the borough of Lewisham? The fact is that local councils have very little power to shape the sort of high street that people want. Local authorities can't force shops to open or prevent them closing, they have very little influence on the changing demographics of an area which is the main determinate of its character. They can't prevent bookmakers opening or popup bars closing because the head landlord gets a better offer. It looks to me like the mess in front of Namaste is on private property which the council is not responsible for. I agree that the Skanska contract appears to be a bit of a dog, as the saga of their failure to maintain the High Street banners and non-completion of the Thorpes lighting scheme attests. But these outsourcing contracts are forced on local authorities by central government policy. I doubt anyone in Lewisham council thinks they're a good idea. I think Lewisham direct labour services, like refuse collection and street cleaning, are pretty good compared to places where I've lived where they have been privatised. Local authorities are subject to a vicious and sustained ideologically-driven assault on their ability to deliver balanced and good-quality services and are having to impose draconian cuts on peripheral areas just to keep essentials like care for the elderly and children's services afloat.

The High Street faces challenges now that Coop/Budgens has closed and the post office is under threat. But whining about a local council's impotence is pointless when it has no real powers to influence the development of the area. The area will improve in the long term as it slowly gentryfies, slowly spreading down the hill from the station end. I'm afraid that it might well be a very long time before Lower Sydenham gets any benefit though.

[leenewham]

Councils can be pro-active in improving high streets. We have local cllrs don't we? They aren't jus here to tell us what the council does or to copy and paste a press release from Budgens. They are here to listen to locals and fight to make their local area better.

Councils can enforce planning, they can help set up traders groups, they can fight for funding to improve areas, they can set up BID groups. They are responsible for the lighting contracts. The banners. The markets. The town squares. They can offer rate holidays for businesses to attract them to the high street. They can get funding to make empty shops look more attractive. They can change signage and planters and street trees. order better toilets for station approach.

Why is Forest Hill doing better than Sydenham at present? The traders group seem to be making a difference. They seem to have embedded this deeper within the whole SEE3 project better than in Sydenham. They certainly listened more and were more pro-active in making things happen for themselves while local representatives said 'lets see what Forest Hill do' before doing, well, very little it would seem.

[Pally]

I agree with all you say Lee ..and I know it has all been said before!
I do think Trades Association makes a difference in FH ...but I think in Sydenham there is no sense that a TA can get listened to or do much around other groups and representatives .... from comments made to me in the past. I really cant see anything long term coming from all that SEE3 money...no apparent sustainable strategy ...unless anyone can tell me what I've missed!?The Assembly sounds "set up" rather than true consultation but I wasn't there as I explained ...disappointing though as new drive, consultation might do SOMETHING!!

[sparticus]

The argument that Forest Hill (or Crystal Palace or east Dulwich) is doing " better" than Sydenham seems to be about coffee shops, bars and restaurants and the odd deli or organic butcher. Gentrification in other words. Personally, I think the High Street in Sydenham, with its greater range of shops, caters much better for day to day needs than any of the others. I can buy a good bottle of wine, some self-tapping screws, get my phone fixed, buy good quality fruit and vegetables in a proper-and friendly- greengrocer and good fish and meat in the excellent Billings and Anatolian yoghurt and Iranian flatbread and Harissa paste and wonderful olives. Try doing all that in Forest Hill or Crystal Palace. And neither Forest Hill or Crystal Palace seem particularly blessed with noticeably better infrastructure, town scapes, street furniture or lighting than Sydenham.

Gentrification is driven by the influx of predominantly younger, wealthier people with disposable incomes that encourage places like coffee shops and bijou delis to open up. This influx used to follow on from an area being colonised by bohemian types, students and so on taking advantage of low housing costs and decent public transport, but now is probably more about simple overspill from adjacent areas. It is definitely a mixed blessing. Forest Hill has also benefited from being quite compact and having both a station and decent supermarket in close proximity. The Kirkdale end of the High Street in Sydenham is experiencing a similar gentrification albeit slowly, and house prices and rentals "between the stations" and in the Thorpes reflect this.

We have a decent set of councillors In Sydenham and a local authority that is having to make very difficult choices in a climate of massive funding cuts and unmitigated hostility from central government. We need to be realistic about what local councils are able to do.

[Kingfisher78]

The argument that Forest Hill (or Crystal Palace or east Dulwich) is doing " better" than Sydenham seems to be about coffee shops, bars and restaurants and the odd deli or organic butcher. Gentrification in other words. Personally, I think the High Street in Sydenham, with its greater range of shops, caters much better for day to day needs than any of the others. I can buy a good bottle of wine, some self-tapping screws, get my phone fixed, buy good quality fruit and vegetables in a proper-and friendly- greengrocer and good fish and meat in the excellent Billings and Anatolian yoghurt and Iranian flatbread and Harissa paste and wonderful olives. Try doing all that in Forest Hill or Crystal Palace. And neither Forest Hill or Crystal Palace seem particularly blessed with noticeably better infrastructure, town scapes, street furniture or lighting than Sydenham.

Gentrification is driven by the influx of predominantly younger, wealthier people with disposable incomes that encourage places like coffee shops and bijou delis to open up. This influx used to follow on from an area being colonised by bohemian types, students and so on taking advantage of low housing costs and decent public transport, but now is probably more about simple overspill from adjacent areas. It is definitely a mixed blessing. Forest Hill has also benefited from being quite compact and having both a station and decent supermarket in close proximity. The Kirkdale end of the High Street in Sydenham is experiencing a similar gentrification albeit slowly, and house prices and rentals "between the stations" and in the Thorpes reflect this.

We have a decent set of councillors In Sydenham and a local authority that is having to make very difficult choices in a climate of massive funding cuts and unmitigated hostility from central government. We need to be realistic about what local councils are able to do.

It has nothing to do with bars, coffee shops and the odd deli or gentrification. The worn, now dirty and unsecured banners or the pictures of the state of the Namaste site that I have put up are an inexcusable sore sight. People have been complaining about the banners for months. Nothing has been done. The fact is that the nicer and CLEANER our high street looks, the more it'll attract new businesses that care about our High Street and their customers. I agree that we shouldn't be overtly negative. But there's nothing negative about people taking an interest in their High Street and wanting things to improve, and even recognising that their local councillors are not doing the job that they should be, when they complain about a basic problem like the banners for months, and nothing is done. People pay their taxes so that their councillors represent their views and concerns, and take an active role in improving and fighting for the area that they live in. I agree that there is variety in Sydenham in terms of where we can shop, but there is also a LOT of work to be done if we want to attract new businesses, visitors and more residents to take part in community events and visit our local shops, market etc.

[sparticus]

The fact is that the nicer and CLEANER our high street looks, the more it'll attract new businesses that care about our High Street and their customers

This is not a fact. It is an opinion. Where is your evidence? I've lived in several areas of London which have gentrified. They were all scruffy dumps and then young professionals with disposable incomes started to move in, and it was those demographic shifts that brought about the changes that some people think are desirable. Forest Hill, East Dulwich and Crystal Palace were no "nicer and cleaner" looking than Sydenham. You can pimp an area as much as you like, but at the end of the day you need enough people there with money to spend. Polishing a turd just makes for shiner turds. And it's an insult to the existing traders on the High Street to imply that they don't care about their customers, many of them do.

[sparticus]

And I'd also want to say that the outsourcing forced on local authorities results in a lot of our civic amenities ending up in the hands of firms like Skankia. Like the banners on the High Street and lighting. In the case of the incomplete lighting scheme in the Thorpes, local councillors have been very prompt in taking the matter up with Skankia, but their power to force them to act is very limited.

[Kingfisher78]

This is not a fact. It is an opinion. Where is your evidence? I've lived in several areas of London which have gentrified. They were all scruffy dumps and then young professionals with disposable incomes started to move in, and it was those demographic shifts that brought about the changes that some people think are desirable. Forest Hill, East Dulwich and Crystal Palace were no "nicer and cleaner" looking than Sydenham. You can pimp an area as much as you like, but at the end of the day you need enough people there with money to spend. Polishing a turd just makes for shiner turds. And it's an insult to the existing traders on the High Street to imply that they don't care about their customers, many of them do.

"The fact is," doesn't actually mean that it is a fact, literally. It is a saying. We are all just merely sharing our opinions of course, and i respect yours, even if it differs to mine. I'm not talking about gentrification at all. I am not talking about having e.g. more cafe's like Forest Hill's Canvas and Cream (though attractive in my opinion) it sells overpriced food and drinks. Areas such as Dalston over the years have become more gentrified as young professionals and students have moved in. But I don't believe the area is generally any more attractive as a result. While parts of Dalston have greatly developed with new and attractive businesses, other parts have worsened in general appearance, and cleanliness.

I believe cafe's, pubs, restaurants etc can be both relatively affordable and make an effort in their appearance, signage etc. Improving the look of your business or opening a new attractive business does not necessarily mean you have to drastically increase your prices. Sometimes small steps can be taken. Improving the look of our High Street also ensures that local residents are happier in the area that they live in. Nigel wrote a post very recently about the amount of bad news that is featured in relation to Sydenham on this forum. This should indicate the discontent and frustration of some or even many local residents in regard to the area that they live in.

I'm talking about attracting more businesses like Billings, Sugahill cafe, Calabash of Culture etc. to the High Street. Businesses that are a credit to our High Street. Additionally, I made no implication at all that existing traders on the High Street do not care about their customers. In fact, I did not mention existing traders at all. I stated that there is a direct link (in my opinion at least) between maintaining the appearance of our High Street (banners, Namaste site etc) and attracting new businesses that care about the area and their customers, attracting visitors and more residents in taking part in community projects.

Anyway, I will end on what Lee said as I happen to agree with him. "Councils can enforce planning, they can help set up traders groups, they can fight for funding to improve areas, they can set up BID groups. They are responsible for the lighting contracts. The banners. The markets. The town squares. They can offer rate holidays for businesses to attract them to the high street. They can get funding to make empty shops look more attractive. They can change signage and planters and street trees. order better toilets for station approach."

It is easy to say that the council can't, that something is too difficult, impossible, it is not in their power. if it is in the power of other local councils to affect such changes, it is in our local council's power also.