Bell Green Retail & Employment Plan Consultation

[broken_shaman]

Dropped through my door today, if anyone is interested.

Gas towers to go, Aldi to arrive, together with a restaurant/ cafe (I'd expect Burger King over a sit-down restaurant tbh) and even more car parking.

[parker]

I'd be more concerned about an Aldi opening than the McDonald's signage, it's like going one step forward having Next and two steps back with Aldi. I think a sit down restaurant, Nando's or Frankie & Benny's is most likely for this project. Burger King and KFC drive-thrus couldn't compete with McDonald's in such close proximity. I don't think Burger King even build drive-thrus anymore.

[broken_shaman]

I think the real problem is that the roads struggle with the volume of traffic. Residents were promised that the junction with Perry Rise and Perry Hill would be sorted when B&Q etc... came in, but can't say I've noticed the change, as a resident of one of the rat-runs. Aldi will bring in even more traffic and pollution.

Yes. I would prefer some green space too, with a nice playground for the kids, perhaps with some nice residential development. Guess it's not profitable enough. Surprising as there is a housing shortage.

I also quite like the gas towers, which together with the Livesey, are the only reminder left of what the site used to be. Perhaps the frames could be used as part of the redevelopment. I'm sure the Starling's would appreciate it, as they seem to use them as their place of safety and gather there to murmur before sleeping in the trees behind the Livesey.

[broken_shaman]

I thought restaurants and boutiques when the housing development came in and the B&Q bit. We got Sports Direct taking over all the units as one in the housing bit and a drive through McDonalds.

So I don't want to disappoint myself again.

Those car parks make great spaces for kids on motorbikes too.

[owlwise]

Everywhere else these majestic steel gas holders are being Listed and included within the new design/development of regeneration but not in Sydenham. No. There is a lack of imagination and forward thinking in investing in the local heritage of the area. The Planners must rethink this and locals MUST oppose this development unless the gas holders stay.

[leenewham]

I agree with Owl and Rod.

It would be nice if some things in this borough were created for beauty, heritage and place rather than more crass retail spaces.

Where is the vision? Where is the imagination? Bell Green has been redeveloped and it's all pretty bargain basement, the new apartments look poorly finished and aren't particularly attractive. Can't we do better than this?

The gas works have a rich heritage. How come the humble gas works had better, bore beautiful buildings that what replaced them? We celebrated the storage of gas with architecture, then we built identikit buildings to replace them:

They used to look like this:

It doesn't have to be this way…



http://decor10blog.com/design-decorate/ ... cross.html

[syd-gal]

Would be great if the gasholders could be saved and the area turned into a park, such as in the photo posted by leenewham above.

[owlwise]

The steel architecture of the gas holders is beautiful. It would be a tragic loss to Sydenham if these were demolished, and a travesty!

The locals MUST please object to their demolition. There should be an outcry.

[broken_shaman]

And there are probably only two other surviving early pioneering examples with tee-section lattice guide frame standards, both in London. The No. 1 gasholder at Kennington, near the Oval, was completed a year later in 1879 but its standards were subsequently raised; and the 1882 gasholder at Sydenham. Neither has Poplar’s curved and tapering box-lattice girders. Similar distinctive girders were used elsewhere but none survive.

http://residents-first.co.uk/the-histor ... gasholder/

[Tubby]

Were they really built in the 1880s? Yeah would be nice if at least one could be saved and sympathetically built around.

I know, perhaps we could turn one into a pub! Or an estate agents perhaps.

Found this... sheds a bit of light on what's happening.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30405066

[Sydenham Syd]

I'm not sure the hanging gardens of Babylon, or whatever that may be, is appropriate for Bell Green. The Pool river is not wide enough to mimic the Euphrates

[parker]

How about Lewisham's own piece of gentrification, a BoxPark.

[alywin]

I think the real problem is that the roads struggle with the volume of traffic. Residents were promised that the junction with Perry Rise and Perry Hill would be sorted when B&Q etc... came in, but can't say I've noticed the change, as a resident of one of the rat-runs. Aldi will bring in even more traffic and pollution.

Yes. I would prefer some green space too, with a nice playground for the kids, perhaps with some nice residential development. Guess it's not profitable enough. Surprising as there is a housing shortage.

I also quite like the gas towers, which together with the Livesey, are the only reminder left of what the site used to be. Perhaps the frames could be used as part of the redevelopment. I'm sure the Starling's would appreciate it, as they seem to use them as their place of safety and gather there to murmur before sleeping in the trees behind the Livesey.

To see the effect of Aldi developments locally, you only need to pop along to the "Robin Hood" at Anerley and look at what's been done there: the visiting cars really foul up the traffic at times as they queue to get in. We warned this would happen (too near a crossroads), yet the planners still allowed it.

I think the problem with a potential housing development is that the ground is contaminated, isn't it? I thought that's what was said in relation to other areas of the park which haven't been built on. Agree that it would be nice to have some parkland, though - and the gas towers should be retained: over the years I've got some lovely photos of sunsets and the like through them.

[syd-gal]

It looks like the gas holders are definitely going to be demolished. I went to the exhibition in the Livesey yesterday. And it looks as if all the gas holders around the country will also be disappearing in the next few years.

[gillyjp]

Oh please - next we'll have the good old Sydenham society poking their noses in (if they haven't already that is) and we'll be lumbered with a 'fight to keep the gas holders and get them listed' campaign. You only have to look at what has happened to The Greyhound once the do-Gooders get involved. Just to jog people's memories, after a saga that lasted 8+ years we ended up with a pub that got knocked down, subsequently rebuilt and is now still lying empty with weeds, dirt and debris all around. A great entrance and 'Gateway to Sydenham.' I REST MY CASE!!

[gillyjp]

I am merely suggesting that these people should perhaps learn by their mistakes. Lets face it The Greyhound fiasco was prolonged by those who in their infinite wisdom wanted it made into a 'listed building' which did not do the surrounding area, immediate local residents, or the building any favours. To oppose change just for the sake of it, has done more harm than good in the case of the Greyhound. We now have a white elephant that no one wants to take on and who can blame them.

Another case in point is the Windmill Pub in Kirkdale. Having succeeded in earmarking that as a building of local interest, it will now stay as an eyesore for the foreseeable future whilst concerned residents think about what they want done with it.

I have no problem getting involved with local projects, as we ourselves have indeed done. We have kept the newly planted saplings alive outside the Greyhound by watering them through the summer months and also planted pansies around their bases and spring bulbs which hopefully will be evident come the Spring.

[monkeyarms]

Except that, as far as I'm aware, the Greyhound is currently Under Offer. And while I know there was an application made for the Greyhound to receive ACV status (asset of community value) I don't know if that application was successful. I asked somewhere in this thread. Nobody answered to tell me yea or nea! So I don't know whether the Greyhound is "listed" as you put it.

Anyway, it was initially Under Offer after its ACV application was put forward, so clearly a potential ACV status did not put off the initial buyer. I don't know what it was that put off that initial buyer, but whatever it was, the Greyhound was only back on the market for a couple of weeks before it found whoever the current Under Offer buyer is.

My suspicion is not that things like ACVs put buyers off, it's more Sydenham as a place - it's way off most businesses' radars and it's not a trendy, thriving, buzzing high street. But maybe you saying that ultimately we would have been better off with Purelake just going ahead, having knocked it down, and building similar flats to those surrounding it?

[leenewham]

Exactly Monkey Arms.

How long was the unit next to the Greyhound Empty?

How long has it taken to redevelop the old Nichols Blinds development?

How long has the Silverdale Sorting office been empty?

The fact is that there are many, many factors that affect commercial properties, developments etc.

We need to be patient. There needs to be a long-term vision. Eventually the Greyhound will be let, it will be better than if it had been turned into a 'public square'.

[Tubby]

What would be nice is if there was an actual Bell Green, a green area near the cafe/restaurant that would could be used for different community activities, with the facilities of the cafe nearby. Markets etc?

It would also border the new Livesey Hall garden, so potential of sharing the space.

Perhaps bits of the structure of the Gasometers could be reused and lit dramatically? Actually give Bell Green a visual identity rather than a load of warehouse buildings and expanses of concrete car park.

I just went down there and the real thing that struck me was the breeze blocked sides of the sports direct building and litter in the planting on one side of the road, and these majestic structures and mature trees on the other. I'm sure the idea was to make it a nice place to be for a human being on foot, but it just hasn't happened.

Initially I thought they should not destroy the last remnants of the gasworks, but now I'm leaning towards trying to make the developers appreciate that we should try to make it a bit easier on the eye / local residents.

[JayB]

Fantastic news, what Sydenham is desperately short of is a supermarket! Oh wait...... Jeez, the bottom of the high street is already struggling, the traffic queues up Perry Rise are growing by the day waiting to get onto the "employment park" (how naive do they think we are? Plus we already get Macdonald's rubbish discarded in Adamsrill, De Frene and Queenswood `Roads as well las along the waterpark.As well as the pollution and congestion, the equally sad aspect is the pedestrian notion of such down market ideas. Why not go the whole hog and give us a Nando's and a PaddyPower as well? Not sure commenting on here will help though, have people written to their councillors/MP?