will there be a gate big enough to fit boris through?
i've said it before...those who live near the station, you chose to live near a train station ffs.
if you are given housing by the council/government then yes the conditions may not be nice and i agree something should be done to improve matters, but you are getting what i assume is either free or subsidised housing.
Oyster Card introduction shut station gates
Oh I see Lambchops - those who live in 'subsidised' housing are not allowed a say in the external issues that happen in their locality which effects their quality of life eh? How pompous!
By the same token then those who choose to have children shouldn't whinge about having to climb a few steps with a toddler and a buggy to get to platform 1 then I presume? Its tough sometimes when you have kids - deal with it. Millions of us have had children and coped but don't expect everyone else to be falling over backwards to accommodate our life choices.
So the only ones we have to concern ourselves in this debate then are the disabled. Well it seems that with Anne Burbidge's post on 30/4 quite clearly there will be a 24/7 operating system which will open the gate to platform 1 remotely then they will be catered for.
I assume that this will now be an end to this issue and there will be no need for any more petition signing or leafleting - unless of course some the able bodied (but feeble) will still be peeved that they will have to once again walk around to the main station entrance and over the footbridge to access platform 1. Which was, I hasten to add, the case for years before the Sydenham Society decided to get stuck in and completely ignore the views of the immediate residents.
By the same token then those who choose to have children shouldn't whinge about having to climb a few steps with a toddler and a buggy to get to platform 1 then I presume? Its tough sometimes when you have kids - deal with it. Millions of us have had children and coped but don't expect everyone else to be falling over backwards to accommodate our life choices.
So the only ones we have to concern ourselves in this debate then are the disabled. Well it seems that with Anne Burbidge's post on 30/4 quite clearly there will be a 24/7 operating system which will open the gate to platform 1 remotely then they will be catered for.
I assume that this will now be an end to this issue and there will be no need for any more petition signing or leafleting - unless of course some the able bodied (but feeble) will still be peeved that they will have to once again walk around to the main station entrance and over the footbridge to access platform 1. Which was, I hasten to add, the case for years before the Sydenham Society decided to get stuck in and completely ignore the views of the immediate residents.
Oyster card
JillyJP, some of us young parents like to expose our children to new experiences and there are plenty of free museums and wonderful architecture to marvel at in central London. We are being good parents whilst keeping our own sanity and only want to be able to do this like anyone else without a pushchair to worry about.
If the system proposed works fine. We shall see..
By the way, it's not just a few steps either, and how can a few cars doing drop offs be that annoying, you have no other through traffic afterall.
If the system proposed works fine. We shall see..
By the way, it's not just a few steps either, and how can a few cars doing drop offs be that annoying, you have no other through traffic afterall.
I havent been around to help out with the leafleting due to a family bereavement, but back this evening and I have this in my inbox from Cllr Chris Best.
I dont want to get embroiled in the other unpleasantness on this forum. Its pretty lousy that all these debates seem to descend to everyone slagging off everyone else's point of view.
However, all I will say on the matter is I live next door to two hostels on Lawrie Park Road and in the six years I've lived here, for one reason or another, there have been prolonged periods of unpleasantness and disruption for us. I dont, however, object to the presence of hostels or in fact the presence of them next door to me. I dont want the performance of a minority of selfish gits to triumph over the behaviour of the majority and the greater good.
I feel a lot better about this matter having heard that there will be disabled access, after all I genuinely DO believe that this is the concern of the majority as its a legal right these days. I still think that access through the side gate for everyone cant be as hard as it appears, tho it wont kill me to walk over the bridge.
I also think that something additional could and ought to be done to make the residents' lives of PHG easier if the gated access continues to be permitted. I can promise them that whilst I do use the side gate every day and it makes a huge difference to me when I have luggage etc, I dont wang pizzas about or wee up the gate. I dont get dropped off/ picked up. Nor do I smoke. Can I stay???
Hello Kerry
Please be assured that we continuing to press our partners for a first class service on the East London Line including having Oyster card readers on both entrances to the station. Cllr Alexander, Deputy Mayor and Cabinet Member for Regeneration recently met Len Duvall our London Assembly member at Sydenham Station to run through the access issues.
I will let you know as soon as we have a positive response to this situation.
Kind regards
Chris
I dont want to get embroiled in the other unpleasantness on this forum. Its pretty lousy that all these debates seem to descend to everyone slagging off everyone else's point of view.
However, all I will say on the matter is I live next door to two hostels on Lawrie Park Road and in the six years I've lived here, for one reason or another, there have been prolonged periods of unpleasantness and disruption for us. I dont, however, object to the presence of hostels or in fact the presence of them next door to me. I dont want the performance of a minority of selfish gits to triumph over the behaviour of the majority and the greater good.
I feel a lot better about this matter having heard that there will be disabled access, after all I genuinely DO believe that this is the concern of the majority as its a legal right these days. I still think that access through the side gate for everyone cant be as hard as it appears, tho it wont kill me to walk over the bridge.
I also think that something additional could and ought to be done to make the residents' lives of PHG easier if the gated access continues to be permitted. I can promise them that whilst I do use the side gate every day and it makes a huge difference to me when I have luggage etc, I dont wang pizzas about or wee up the gate. I dont get dropped off/ picked up. Nor do I smoke. Can I stay???
As usual the middle class prejudice of this site comes to the fore. So people in social housing are second class citizens - we are subsidised so we don't count. Will you take our votes away as well then? Clearly we don't deserve one as our views seem to count for nothing here.
Any way the rail company have a solution that allows everyone who needs to access the platform the ablity to do so 24/7 whilst the able bodied will have to walk a few more yards - which may be good for those who get driven a few hundred yards by their partners every morning! At the same time the quality of life for those who live in PHG will be improved. Or aren't we good enough to be entitled to that either?
Any way the rail company have a solution that allows everyone who needs to access the platform the ablity to do so 24/7 whilst the able bodied will have to walk a few more yards - which may be good for those who get driven a few hundred yards by their partners every morning! At the same time the quality of life for those who live in PHG will be improved. Or aren't we good enough to be entitled to that either?
Over 1,000 leaflets were handed out at the gate from 7.15am until 9am (at which point we ran out). A further 300 were distributed at the gate in the early evening - an indication of how well this gate is used during the day.
The petition now has 225 signatures. I'm told by our STF expert DickP who works professionally in this area that this is an incredibly good flyer/sign up ratio.
If you haven't already signed up here is the link
www.gopetition.com/online/18722.html
By the way if you click on "signatures" (top right) and then hover with your mouse over "comments" you can read all of the interesting things people have to say in support of our campaign.
I have never known a local campaign which has attracted such widespread support and offers of help. I feel confident that we will achieve our aim of making sure that this gate is kept open for all passengers as it is now.
Of course assuring that the interests of local neighbours is balanced with the need for public access is essential. In the next 18 months this platform will be extended and widened. This is an ideal opportunity to ensure that this work includes "screening" off of the platform from PHG. I have also talked to local councillors about far more regular cleaning around the gate and the provision of bins at the entrance. If residents in PHG wish to protect themselves from parking then they should consider a CPZ.
However, support for steps like these cannot in my view extend to demanding that the gate be closed permanently. The inhabitants of Girton Road, for example, undoubtedly suffer from extra litter and many more cars because they live near Somerfields and the Girton Road car park. But if Girton Road residents demanded that Somerfield be closed down or their road be cordoned off, or the GR CP closed, I don't think that this could be a course of action that could possibly warrant public support.
The petition now has 225 signatures. I'm told by our STF expert DickP who works professionally in this area that this is an incredibly good flyer/sign up ratio.
If you haven't already signed up here is the link
www.gopetition.com/online/18722.html
By the way if you click on "signatures" (top right) and then hover with your mouse over "comments" you can read all of the interesting things people have to say in support of our campaign.
I have never known a local campaign which has attracted such widespread support and offers of help. I feel confident that we will achieve our aim of making sure that this gate is kept open for all passengers as it is now.
Of course assuring that the interests of local neighbours is balanced with the need for public access is essential. In the next 18 months this platform will be extended and widened. This is an ideal opportunity to ensure that this work includes "screening" off of the platform from PHG. I have also talked to local councillors about far more regular cleaning around the gate and the provision of bins at the entrance. If residents in PHG wish to protect themselves from parking then they should consider a CPZ.
However, support for steps like these cannot in my view extend to demanding that the gate be closed permanently. The inhabitants of Girton Road, for example, undoubtedly suffer from extra litter and many more cars because they live near Somerfields and the Girton Road car park. But if Girton Road residents demanded that Somerfield be closed down or their road be cordoned off, or the GR CP closed, I don't think that this could be a course of action that could possibly warrant public support.
if the gate is to be open then the conditions in the street as a result of this need to be addressed.
you either chose to live near a train station, or you are fortunate enough to be given free or subsidised housing. my contention is that because of this you should not be seeking to ruin train access for other people. it's either your choice to live there or you are there as a privelage.
do i need to make it clearer, or should i write a middle class letter to news of the world so you can read it when you unwrap your fish and chips for dinner in the evening?
you either chose to live near a train station, or you are fortunate enough to be given free or subsidised housing. my contention is that because of this you should not be seeking to ruin train access for other people. it's either your choice to live there or you are there as a privelage.
do i need to make it clearer, or should i write a middle class letter to news of the world so you can read it when you unwrap your fish and chips for dinner in the evening?
-
Paddy Pantsdown
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 1 Oct 2004 10:04
- Location: Venner Road
I am confused over this issue of private/public housing. If its your own house - you can sell up and move to somewhere quieter if you can afford it. Tough if you can't. Siimilary all the public housing associations I am aware of have swopping arrangements.
I know of a couple who live far away from any pub or railway station in a HA flat overlooking a quiet park with excellent parking and a wide open road. They have no car and would be delighted to swop with a home so conveniently located for rail access at the moment. Deal Simon?
Or is it an issue your provider doesn't allow swops. in which case is that the issue you/we should be fighting and not denying thousands of people free and easy access to platform 1?
Do you really have no choice?
PP
I know of a couple who live far away from any pub or railway station in a HA flat overlooking a quiet park with excellent parking and a wide open road. They have no car and would be delighted to swop with a home so conveniently located for rail access at the moment. Deal Simon?
Or is it an issue your provider doesn't allow swops. in which case is that the issue you/we should be fighting and not denying thousands of people free and easy access to platform 1?
Do you really have no choice?
PP
Guys, I appreciate your right to free speech, but is it really productive to bait the residents of PHG...? I have no idea what the personal circumstances are of the people who live there and I dont need them to qualify them for me... it probably is no more acceptable asking them to lump it/ move, than it is to expect the disabled to trek to Forest Hill and parents to "buy a car." Ultimately, do we not want to seek a solution that leaves everyone happy?
Perhaps the residents of PHG could help us with what it would take for them to be happy with the gate being open and we can put equal effort into helping them achieve that, as Nasaroc has made such a great start on..?
Perhaps the residents of PHG could help us with what it would take for them to be happy with the gate being open and we can put equal effort into helping them achieve that, as Nasaroc has made such a great start on..?
Lambchops why do you have to be so offensive. I hate to think what what other prejudices you have! Actually I read the Guardian and run a Local Authority housing department, and sit on the board of a Housing Association. So none of you need lecture me on what social housing is or what rights I or any other tenant has. The reason I live in social housing is nothing to do with you. The issue here is what is best for everyone. The train company have come up with a solution to allow those that need to, to access the station. Why then are you so determined to allow people who do not need to access this platform from PHG at the cost of our quality of life? Why continue to hide behind the issue of disability etc when all we are actually talking about is laziness.
As for the example of Girton Road I am afraid that does not apply. The station gate has only just been opened whilst the Supermarket has been there for many years.
As for the example of Girton Road I am afraid that does not apply. The station gate has only just been opened whilst the Supermarket has been there for many years.
Once the disabled and parents with young children have been accommodated by having remote access to platform 1 (as already agreed by the Rail Company and acknowledged previously in this thread) then I fail to see that there is a valid argument for keeping the gate open for any others.
It does amuse me that Nasaroc has now decided to consider the local residents in all of this, but at least there is now a degree of honesty in that he is now admitting that they want the gate open for 'all' people and not just hiding behind the needs of those with disabilities or with young children to ferry about.
And in answer to PP's post about trying to 'deny free and easy access' to platform one - well just walking a bit further and then up and over a footbridge to that same platform is not exactly a hardship for the able bodied surely?
Lambchops offensive and prejudiced posts should be taken off this site and I am requesting that the moderator acts accordingly.
It does amuse me that Nasaroc has now decided to consider the local residents in all of this, but at least there is now a degree of honesty in that he is now admitting that they want the gate open for 'all' people and not just hiding behind the needs of those with disabilities or with young children to ferry about.
And in answer to PP's post about trying to 'deny free and easy access' to platform one - well just walking a bit further and then up and over a footbridge to that same platform is not exactly a hardship for the able bodied surely?
Lambchops offensive and prejudiced posts should be taken off this site and I am requesting that the moderator acts accordingly.
-
Paddy Pantsdown
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 1 Oct 2004 10:04
- Location: Venner Road
No - they will just spend a little less time with their families and get a bit colder and wetter. Does this not concern you? What about for the non-abled bodied, the elderly, the young, those in prams, those with luggage. Do they not count?gillyjp wrote:And in answer to PP's post about trying to 'deny free and easy access' to platform one - well just walking a bit further and then up and over a footbridge to that same platform is not exactly a hardship for the able bodied surely? .
I've answered your question. Will you answer mine? That about choice of where you live as well as the above.
PP
I'm sure lots of sydenham residents could "easily" walk to forest hill, lower sydenham sydenham hill, penge west, or take the bus. that's not the point. what kind of numbskull closes a gate that we now know (simply by the number of flyers handed out) upwards of a 1500 residents use every day?
What Jilly fails to accept is she is more or less in a minority of one. It doesn’t matter what kind of housing she lives in, or that that she’s very passionate in her view. Balancing up the needs of the wider community, the vast majority of local commuters' views should take precedence over hers. (And it would be nice if Southern were good enough to adhere to the law of the land re disabled access, to.)
Btw: I lived in a house that backed onto a train station and train cleaning depot for two years. I didn’t like the noise, so as soon as I could afford to, I moved.
What Jilly fails to accept is she is more or less in a minority of one. It doesn’t matter what kind of housing she lives in, or that that she’s very passionate in her view. Balancing up the needs of the wider community, the vast majority of local commuters' views should take precedence over hers. (And it would be nice if Southern were good enough to adhere to the law of the land re disabled access, to.)
Btw: I lived in a house that backed onto a train station and train cleaning depot for two years. I didn’t like the noise, so as soon as I could afford to, I moved.
i'm not prejudiced at all.
have a look at what you are saying, and what i am saying.
i don't want people pissing in your front garden, taking your parking spots, throwing cig butts on your front mat. why would i think that's ok behaviour?
i just don't think that closing the gate is a good solution given the requirements for disabled access, and the very real prospect that the train companies will not operate a remote operated door properly.
the fact that you guys either chose to live next to a station, are in housing which is provided for you or where your housing is subsidised does not lessen your rights in any way. in my opinion, however, it does not give you the right to ruin things for everyone else.
i actually find being labelled middle class quite offensive! hahah!!
i really hope you havn't taken any great offence over my postings. emails and message boards are prone to misinterpretation.
maybe you could go to the next meeting with the train operators if there is one?
have a look at what you are saying, and what i am saying.
i don't want people pissing in your front garden, taking your parking spots, throwing cig butts on your front mat. why would i think that's ok behaviour?
i just don't think that closing the gate is a good solution given the requirements for disabled access, and the very real prospect that the train companies will not operate a remote operated door properly.
the fact that you guys either chose to live next to a station, are in housing which is provided for you or where your housing is subsidised does not lessen your rights in any way. in my opinion, however, it does not give you the right to ruin things for everyone else.
i actually find being labelled middle class quite offensive! hahah!!
i really hope you havn't taken any great offence over my postings. emails and message boards are prone to misinterpretation.
maybe you could go to the next meeting with the train operators if there is one?
I would be delighted to attend any meeting as long as I was able to have my say. In the end I think we need to ensure everyones interests are taken into account. A blanket leave everything as it is, which is essentialy that the residents of PHG are ignored is not acceptable. Gillyjp and I may be the exception in terms of setting out our views on this site. There are many others who willnot know it exists or even have access to the internet at all. Perhaps we could get together to canvass their opinions (and other surrounding streets). We could also see if there is support for a CPZ, although many will not sadly be able to afford cars either.
Perhaps there may be support from COuncillors etc to plant a few trees in the road as well.
Perhaps there may be support from COuncillors etc to plant a few trees in the road as well.
-
Paddy Pantsdown
- Posts: 204
- Joined: 1 Oct 2004 10:04
- Location: Venner Road
Thanks Simono for your postive response. I think it is easy in these threads to see each other as opponents. But I think most of us feel exactly the same as you when we can't park outside our own homes or we find a drinkcan or worse thrown over the wall.
There is also this tricky thing of whether what is the other side of your gate is public highway or private parking area. The head should say the first but the heart has a hard time accepting that.
And the issue of anti-social behaviour. If you have a thousand or so people passing that gate every day then you are going to see some. That brings up the issue of the innocent majority being made to suffer for the guilty few.
Its all very messy. No absolute rights or wrongs. It is how we work out the conflicts that counts. I think it fair to say that sometimes the SydSoc sees the global picture at the expense of some individuals. On the other hand individuals sometimes ignore the global picture. Lets hope we are all a little chastened by this exchange of views and can find a way of reconciling our needs.
PP
There is also this tricky thing of whether what is the other side of your gate is public highway or private parking area. The head should say the first but the heart has a hard time accepting that.
And the issue of anti-social behaviour. If you have a thousand or so people passing that gate every day then you are going to see some. That brings up the issue of the innocent majority being made to suffer for the guilty few.
Its all very messy. No absolute rights or wrongs. It is how we work out the conflicts that counts. I think it fair to say that sometimes the SydSoc sees the global picture at the expense of some individuals. On the other hand individuals sometimes ignore the global picture. Lets hope we are all a little chastened by this exchange of views and can find a way of reconciling our needs.
PP
The story so far ...
I just want to say that SydSoc members are hearing very positive noises from most of the players involved in deciding whether the gate to Platform One stays open or not, including from Transport for London. However, nothing quite definite, and nothing from Southern. It may be that Southern don't expect to win the franchise when it is renewed next year, and are simply acting cynically in what they see as the short term interest of their owners, Govia. In which case I don't think they deserve to get a franchise anywhere.
SydSoc is aware of the concerns of some of the residents of Peak Hill Gardens. Having been down there handing out leaflets, in the pouring rain, when you'd expect more cars dropping people off than usual, this does not seem a major problem. On the other hand, there clearly is a nuisance from discarded cigarette butts. We will naturally be urging the station operators and the Council to deal with this and other real nuisances.
Tim Lund
Chair, SydSoc
SydSoc is aware of the concerns of some of the residents of Peak Hill Gardens. Having been down there handing out leaflets, in the pouring rain, when you'd expect more cars dropping people off than usual, this does not seem a major problem. On the other hand, there clearly is a nuisance from discarded cigarette butts. We will naturally be urging the station operators and the Council to deal with this and other real nuisances.
Tim Lund
Chair, SydSoc
[quote="dickp"]I'm sure lots of sydenham residents could "easily" walk to forest hill, lower sydenham sydenham hill, penge west, or take the bus. that's not the point. what kind of numbskull closes a gate that we now know (simply by the number of flyers handed out) upwards of a 1500 residents use every day?
Well if upwards of 1500 people use that gate every day as suggested by Dickp, then Peak Hill Gardens must be taking quite a bashing I think. However I am realistic enough to know that my concerns and those of others living in PHG probably would not be enough against the might of all those who signed the petition.
I therefore am pleased to see that our concerns have been taken seriously and that when liaising with the rail company, things like regular street cleaning are raised.
I would love to see a CPZ in our road, but I doubt many of the other residents would be with us on that one. Perhaps the Syd Soc could be of some assistance canvassing the opinions of the local people?
Well if upwards of 1500 people use that gate every day as suggested by Dickp, then Peak Hill Gardens must be taking quite a bashing I think. However I am realistic enough to know that my concerns and those of others living in PHG probably would not be enough against the might of all those who signed the petition.
I therefore am pleased to see that our concerns have been taken seriously and that when liaising with the rail company, things like regular street cleaning are raised.
I would love to see a CPZ in our road, but I doubt many of the other residents would be with us on that one. Perhaps the Syd Soc could be of some assistance canvassing the opinions of the local people?