Celebrating Brexit.

[Manwithaview1]

My view on Brexit - It's great news!
The turmoil people have said has not arrived, the markets are functioning well, the Banks are well capitalised, and companies and jobs are not leaving the UK.
Whatever your personal views they are all valid - just as the pro Brexiteers - but please think of an alternative argument than the boring and less credible one of "they lied."
Who has lied more? - The EU over 43 years of our membership or the elected Politicians who you voted for?
All politicians highlight facts and morph them into supporting their opinion.
Stop throwing your toys out the pram, and roll up your sleeves.
Thank god we can control our future now.

There was no market turmoil at all. the pound didn't fall to its lowest level against the dollar for 35 years, £1.2 trillion wasn't wiped off the planet's stock markets, The NIKKEI wasn't suspended? Shares in RBS and Barclays weren't suspended on the FTSE? The lie/myth ratio was Remain 2:17 Leave As for the ALL politicians highlights facts nonsense why did Leave MPs repeat lies like 60% of our laws are EU ones? As for our future we control it whatever organisation we are in be it NATO, UN, EU etc...

Man with a view, any time you want a debate I will gladly hold one, and silence you.
I have learned many things that the EU have denied this country in recent years:
1. Rollout of fast broadband - The EU implied that the UK Government assisting BT in this rollout - implied state aid, therefore blocked it. How disgraceful.
2. The UK Government had to beg ALL the other EU leaders for a reduction of VAT on the Tampon. Ridiculous and true.
3. The EU refused Tesco taking on extra workers - Are we going to allow unelected officials in Brussels to deny our citizens growth ?

I am going to say this to all you Pro Eu campaigners - YOU ARE ALL BAD LOSERS, and actually the vast majority I have spoken to have no credible reasons to remain.
The UK electorate on the balance of history have generally ben proven right.

Oh and lastly the Eu Referendum is not best of 3.

Good day.

So why did Farage want a 2nd referendum? I'm sure you can back up all of your claims with valid links to bona fide sites and yes the tampon tax was a joke but the Tories/Red Tories did nothing about it 1979-2015, did they? As for the UK electorate many had no clue pencils were used in voting, ergo they had never voted in any EU elections and only 37.44% voted Leave.

http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of- ... 90-1224784

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-e ... m-36306681

17 May 2016
There could be unstoppable demand for a re-run of the EU referendum if Remain wins by a narrow margin on 23 June, UKIP leader Nigel Farage has said.

[marymck]

And there we go, round in a circle once again. We who voted out are accused of being insane, or stupid, or ill informed. All because we disagree with those who want to keep their comfy sinecures aboard the unaccountable gravy train that is the EU. Sigh.

The EU is accountable though. People are replaced/sacked/voted out etc. Where do you get your information from?

More info to follow about the multiple layers of EU bureaucracy when time permits. Mostly people appointing people in their own image ...

http://ec.europa.eu/about/index_en.htm

[Sydenham Syd]

And there we go, round in a circle once again. We who voted out are accused of being insane, or stupid, or ill informed. All because we disagree with those who want to keep their comfy sinecures aboard the unaccountable gravy train that is the EU. Sigh.

The EU is accountable though. People are replaced/sacked/voted out etc. Where do you get your information from?

More info to follow about the multiple layers of EU bureaucracy when time permits. Mostly people appointing people in their own image ...

http://ec.europa.eu/about/index_en.htm

But we love bureaucracy in this country. It won't make any difference - you just replace one with another over here. We invented red tape. We love it. Leaving Europe won't solve the jobsworth crisis....

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told MEPs that the Brexit vote was "extremely unfortunate", especially for the UK. "That country now has collapsed - politically, economically, monetarily and constitutionally, and you will have years ahead of you to get out of this mess."

[Manwithaview1]

The EU is accountable though. People are replaced/sacked/voted out etc. Where do you get your information from?

More info to follow about the multiple layers of EU bureaucracy when time permits. Mostly people appointing people in their own image ...

http://ec.europa.eu/about/index_en.htm

But we love bureaucracy in this country. It won't make any difference - you just replace one with another over here. We invented red tape. We love it. Leaving Europe won't solve the jobsworth crisis....

Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte told MEPs that the Brexit vote was "extremely unfortunate", especially for the UK. "That country now has collapsed - politically, economically, monetarily and constitutionally, and you will have years ahead of you to get out of this mess."

At least there are policies put forward by Leave to make sure all UK civil servants and peers are elected.

Oh no wait...

[Sydenham Syd]

A very good point MWAV
I mean it seems they had everything in place doesn't it.
Or did the main two protagonists just quit when the going got tough, and the other has just thrown himself under a bus.

Looks like it's all in hand.

[Sydenham Syd]

Now the second property fund gates withdrawals due to liquidity issues
Aviva statement says reaction down to you know what

[Eagle]

If it was not so sad and depressing we would be laughing.

No move to leave yet and we are already in chaos.

[Manwithaview1]

If it was not so sad and depressing we would be laughing.

No move to leave yet and we are already in chaos.

Leave/Brexit politicians/funders should be surcharged for losses.

[stuart]

Leave/Brexit politicians/funders should be surcharged for losses.

No chance of getting the dosh back. It would bankrupt even Uncle Rupert. Oh, it might be fun trying though

Stuart

[Nigel]

The nastiness of brexiteers ? Leave it out vicar !
The best example I can imagine is being at a posh school and admitting both your parents left school at 14 And neither of them did a baccalaureate or supported Hamas.
The assumptions made about those who voted leave are ridiculous . Eagle is a case in point , right leaning but sensible and decent , in his prime but voted remain . This nonsense about young people being stabbed in the back is so over the top and quite offensive . And please don't mention " diversity " in the context of a raging liberal hissy fit that cannot respect a different opinion .
We face different challenges now but were young people not mightily peed off before - at getting second choices of schools for their children , unable to buy a first home , pressure on infrastructure ??
Funny how they never mentioned the demands made by migrants on schools and homes but now find the voice to blame those that wish only for migrants that we need .
For those gloating that BREXIT will not reduce uncontrolled and illogical migration you should start hoping it does , as that is the benefit realisation and route to getting something near fully employment - oh I forgot , you don't care how unskilled people in Norfolk vote or whether they have a job .

A very good evening
Nigel

[Sydenham Syd]

The nastiness of brexiteers ? Leave it out vicar !
The best example I can imagine is being at a posh school and admitting both your parents left school at 14 And neither of them did a baccalaureate or supported Hamas.
The assumptions made about those who voted leave are ridiculous . Eagle is a case in point , right leaning but sensible and decent , in his prime but voted remain . This nonsense about young people being stabbed in the back is so over the top and quite offensive . And please don't mention " diversity " in the context of a raging liberal hissy fit that cannot respect a different opinion .
We face different challenges now but were young people not mightily peed off before - at getting second choices of schools for their children , unable to buy a first home , pressure on infrastructure ??
Funny how they never mentioned the demands made by migrants on schools and homes but now find the voice to blame those that wish only for migrants that we need .
For those gloating that BREXIT will not reduce uncontrolled and illogical migration you should start hoping it does , as that is the benefit realisation and route to getting something near fully employment - oh I forgot , you don't care how unskilled people in Norfolk vote or whether they have a job .

A very good evening
Nigel

Not sure we don't care....quite the reverse. What I care about is the fact they (your Norfolkers) were sold a wrongun here and, as a result, we have now entered territory that none of us really know the outcome, although early indications suggest it's going to be a complete howler.

Bottom line, they didn't vote for this. I doubt they were told that the timescales were such as they are with zero closure....for example.

[Nigel]

Sydenham Syd
With respect , your argument is a benign version of the prevailing view is that the referendum is now about the clever versus the thick .
Why do you assume that people voting leave were more deluded than the remailers are out of touch and contemptuous of ordinary people ?

That is a rhetorical position - like being right but for the wrong reasons
A very good evening
Nigel

[Sydenham Syd]

I wasn't the one that brought up the unskilled in Norfolk. That was you.
I was merely pointing out the fact that a lot of people got sold something that will take years and years to deliver and the prospect of it happening are pretty remote. Even those that campaigned for it have vanished from the scene. No one on the leave side seems to have the conviction to see it through. It has to be accepted that what was portrayed as a slaying of the EU just can't happen.

I have heard retrospectively from a fair few people that they regret voting for leave. I have heard even more saying that they voted for reasons such as following Farage and Boris...neither of which look like happening in the near future.

Carney came out today saying the facts and warnings are now beginning to crystallise.

I am not quite sure exactly what the upside of this is.

Immigration will take an age to reduce, reform, or whatever and there is no plan.
Control of our borders looks further away that two weeks ago.
Massive increase in hate crime.
The economy is uncertain at best...pound, collectives etc. The FTSE is being driven hard by US paid dividends and firms with exposure to the US and thus a generous looking pound. The indexes exposed to the UK are frightening. Commercial property has a liquidity crisis.
EU red tape is still there. Establishment politicians look likely to retain the power seats. The NHS will never see its £350m

I can't quite see how any of the above, essentially what was advertised is reality. If that isn't a misrepresentation, I would love to see an example of what it is.

Get over the ageist elitist regional stuff.

Have a super splendid one

[Eagle]

You kind of partly feel sorry for most Brexiters who had no idea what they were voting for and probably regret already.

There is a reason the Plebians are called plebs.

[Pally]

There is a reason the Plebians are called plebs.

[Nigel]

Sydenham Syd
Three questions :
1 what have the low paid and neglected lost from leaving Europe ?
2 is it right to just say " get over the ageism thing " - its there , do we now ignore it as the wrong kind of hate speech ?
3 when can we expect people of your mindset ( allowing for the fact you never wanted these things anyway ) to start voting for new leaders on the basis of controlling immigration , prioritising people already here , making immigration serve the British economy rather than a being a social service to the third world. ?

What BREXIT paves the way to is a new politics and a lesson against apathy . God knows who will come to lead the various parties but surely your post BREXIT schadenfreude does not stop you enjoying the demise of Corbyn and Cameron for starters ?
A very good evening
Nigel

[marymck]

There is a reason the Plebians are called plebs.

Even Plebeians had a vote! Maybe they didn't make it to Benidorm?

[stuart]

Is it right to just say " get over the ageism thing " - its there , do we now ignore it as the wrong kind of hate speech ?

Oh come on don't be that daft Nigel. A good deal of the aged are saying it is an ageist thing. And don't be silly enough of accusing me of self-hate. You should know that ain't so.

I guess I must also plead guilty to using one of your trigger words - diversity. It may be uncomfortable to you - as it is sometimes to me that our children and our grandchildren are more diverse than us and even more so than our parents and grandparents. Just checking their family trees, their life experiences and (until last week) their future ambitions should prove that whether you like it or not. Or just listen into their conversations. Denying reality is what this debate is all about.

And please don't stupidly try and bipolarise this into an educated/non-educated middle-class/working class or even conservative/liberal issue. Or perhaps you don't listen to other people. I realised this referendum was likely to be lost not when UKIP inspired racists took to our screens but when 60% of my nice middle-class university educated successful retired business former colleagues said they would vote leave. Yes we actually did a count.

But whether you are brilliant/stupid/rich/poor doesn't change facts or our best estimation of them. Stupid people can ignore them but it does take some brilliance to do so convincingly. I do note that some leading Brexiters are also global warming deniers (including several ministers!). Their case may be argued with flair and imagination but unsupported by evidence or models. Does that make them more likely to be right?

Well the future will find them - or me - out. Be cold and calculating. Whatever you wish may happen where do you put your money? I put mine on the euro. I may have got it wrong but you are a braver man than I if you put it on sterling (currently down from 1.40 to 1.17 and still going south).

Just a 'blip' Nigel? Are you buying and when do you plan to sell?

Stuart

[Pally]

There is a reason the Plebians are called plebs.

Even Plebeians had a vote! Maybe they didn't make it to Benidorm?

[Sydenham Syd]

Sydenham Syd
Three questions :
1 what have the low paid and neglected lost from leaving Europe ?
2 is it right to just say " get over the ageism thing " - its there , do we now ignore it as the wrong kind of hate speech ?
3 when can we expect people of your mindset ( allowing for the fact you never wanted these things anyway ) to start voting for new leaders on the basis of controlling immigration , prioritising people already here , making immigration serve the British economy rather than a being a social service to the third world. ?

What BREXIT paves the way to is a new politics and a lesson against apathy . God knows who will come to lead the various parties but surely your post BREXIT schadenfreude does not stop you enjoying the demise of Corbyn and Cameron for starters ?
A very good evening
Nigel

1. We haven't left Europe yet, but when, and if we ever do leave, a large amount will be missed. The contributions to education, infrastructure and in particular youth development in many parts of the country are pretty big. However, I accept it will be difficult to absolutely answer that until it happens.
2. The ageism thing was included alongside elitism and regionalism. My point here is simply that the stats don't lie, and there was a clear correlation between the two votes. There has to be an end to trotting out the same stuff about ageism etc and face the facts about those stats. On that note, racism is definitely on the up since the vote, and surely you can't tell me that has nothing to do with it.
3. Two things here. Firstly the workforce of the UK doesn't have the required skill set to do many of the jobs that we employ people to do here. Whether that be the public or private sectors. Other jobs that we need people to do, many of them a Brit simply wouldn't do. Secondly I believe we have a duty to the third world as you put it. The globe is in a pretty bad state at the moment...whether it be poverty or terrorism, or climate change or political instability. Surely we have a human responsibility to try and help with that. It might be a good time to point out how bad a bunch we were when the so cherished and pined for Empire was going on, and how much we have to blame for global issues. It makes me shiver.

What's amazing Nige, is that you think you think you know what I want. If you think this has paved the way for a new form of politics then I think you and I both will be long gone by the time that happens. Teresa May looks to be the best of a bad bunch, but it's more of the same. The demise of Cameron and Corbyn is a touch of a concern actually. I like them both for different reasons. The demise of those two doesn't spell the end of the two main parties though. I can't see why it meant so much for people to leave is my main issue, when they had no idea what they were leaving to go to. If you are having a crap night in a bar and you want to go next door then you kinda fight to persuade your mates to come with you, but at least you have a defined goal. Here there was nothing, and that is the bewildering part.

I wish you an extra splendid nights kip. Wake up smiling that we have another day of total uncertainty.