So will this talk atleast last for, say, 30 minutes? Or is Steve just appearing in brief to mention a few lines? Will there be seating or is it going to be a quick stand up thing? Please excuse my ignorance; I'm just trying to guage the magnitude of this talk in comparison to the last one. I'm worried poor Steve might have run out of breath...If you want to catch Steve again, he will be talking at the refurbished Forest Hill Library on 28th Feb at 6:30pm (but get there early!)
Steve Grindlay's next talk?
Steve Grindlay's next talk?
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I've got a new book on the Croydon Canal to share with everyone, but I'm too busy right now typing up directories.
So where are we all meeting up first then? Just need to get the final confirmation regarding the details of this talk, including any potential changes to the schedule (you never know...)
Anyone want to go for a curry down Elachi? They do the best Jalfrezi in the country... Or if you want Dhansak then go next door. But let's all meet up first, in the afternoon, at the bottom of Redberry Grove to do some digging... Whad'ya say, guys? Let's not waste our energy on arm wrestling...
So where are we all meeting up first then? Just need to get the final confirmation regarding the details of this talk, including any potential changes to the schedule (you never know...)
Anyone want to go for a curry down Elachi? They do the best Jalfrezi in the country... Or if you want Dhansak then go next door. But let's all meet up first, in the afternoon, at the bottom of Redberry Grove to do some digging... Whad'ya say, guys? Let's not waste our energy on arm wrestling...
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The talk is at Forest Hill library at 6:30 on Thursday 28 Feb, and should last for an hour. It will begin with a brief history of the area and then focus on Dartmouth Road, in particular the pools, Louise House, the library and Holy Trinity school. It would be good to see you there, but you guys should bear in mind that it will be aimed at the general public, not at local history anoraks like us.
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I got lost in Honor Oak Park and had to ask for directions, though I finally found my way to Forest Hill Library for the talk of the century! Well, what can I say... Steve really outdid himself this time! The talk lasted for about an hour and once again was full to capacity. The librarian said, if she had known, she would have setup the talk in the main room.
The presentation--including illustrated slides and a short DVD documentary--was centered around the lower end of Dartmouth Road and Thorpewood avenue, including the 4 main buildings: Holy Trinity, Louise House, Library and Pools. But it started with Sydenham Common, and included several historical teleportations, there and back, to other parts of Forest Hill and Sydenham (there was a lot of noise when a picture of lower Kirkdale was shown).
Now, this talk was like no other: It was a serious intense and in-depth history of the aforementioned extreme locality. I was sweating. Some ladies were taking notes. The information being unleashed was full on! I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near this good. I mean, I thought I knew something about local history, when really, I know next to nothing. If that talk was aimed at the general public then I don't even qualify. This talk was really superb. Forest Hill Society don't know what they missed. I was on the edge of my seat! Steve was coming out with those drainage maps again--among other general ones that showed how the area evolved--maps upon maps, in fact!
Oh mate, how do I even begin to describe this? Steve nailed down the complete history of this area with a stroke of genius... It was covered exhaustively, at all angles, from start to finish. It's up to the historian how he/she chooses to present their history of the area, but Steve's method just cannot be faulted in any way. It went something like this:
1) Sydenham Common
2) Croydon Canal and ancient streams
3) Dartmouth Road
4) Glebe Field (name of the field where the 4 main buildings were built)
5) Holy Trinity School (1st building to be built)
6) Surviving buildings around the area in question (all the rest were demolished)
7) Glebe Field used as market gardens and allotments
Thorpewood Avenue being laid out through a certain gap between fields.
9) History of Dartmouth Road using what I call the "past and present" technique of comparing 2 photos at each stretch of the road.
10) The remaining 3 buildings.
But that was only the bare skeleton of the talk; no doubt I've missed out many parts of the structure. What a remarkable journey--planned, organised and executed by Steve--the masterplanner. The highlights for me were seeing the photo of Belvedere House from Thorpewood Avenue before the flats were built, and finding out about Holy Trinity School. No doubt the pools was the main highlight for everyone else, and that is where much flesh was added to the bones. This is when Steve was in his element... he must have scoured the entire universe to find out all the information he relayed to the public on this fateful evening of 28th February 2008. There was an incredible amount of subtle details coming out left, right and center. I couldn't keep up... Steve had census records and marriage certificate of one of the key invidivuals involved with one of the main buildings. You see, he went into great details about the people behind the buildings--not just the buildings themselves. There was one fatality during the construction of the pools... how did Steve manage to find out all this stuff? I mean, I wouldn't even think about checking out minor decorations above window frames etc. Damn, this talk was full on major to say the least. I could talk more about it but I think that's enough for now... Just forget it; if you weren't there then you missed something major. This was beyond Steve's last talk at the pub opposite the station; that one was aimed more at the general public! Imagine some thick hardback book on one part of Forest Hill with illustrations on every page that you can't be bothered to read, and in your dreams you've seen it in a library somewhere... well, Steve read it out tonight!
Where was Will!?!?!? I was asking everyone "Is your name Will?"
Same response everytime "No".
I was hoping to meet Will and Terry/John. Oh well, maybe next time...
Thanks to Pat Trembath for filling me in on the "future" of the pools; the newsletter is much appreciated.
The presentation--including illustrated slides and a short DVD documentary--was centered around the lower end of Dartmouth Road and Thorpewood avenue, including the 4 main buildings: Holy Trinity, Louise House, Library and Pools. But it started with Sydenham Common, and included several historical teleportations, there and back, to other parts of Forest Hill and Sydenham (there was a lot of noise when a picture of lower Kirkdale was shown).
Now, this talk was like no other: It was a serious intense and in-depth history of the aforementioned extreme locality. I was sweating. Some ladies were taking notes. The information being unleashed was full on! I wasn't expecting it to be anywhere near this good. I mean, I thought I knew something about local history, when really, I know next to nothing. If that talk was aimed at the general public then I don't even qualify. This talk was really superb. Forest Hill Society don't know what they missed. I was on the edge of my seat! Steve was coming out with those drainage maps again--among other general ones that showed how the area evolved--maps upon maps, in fact!
Oh mate, how do I even begin to describe this? Steve nailed down the complete history of this area with a stroke of genius... It was covered exhaustively, at all angles, from start to finish. It's up to the historian how he/she chooses to present their history of the area, but Steve's method just cannot be faulted in any way. It went something like this:
1) Sydenham Common
2) Croydon Canal and ancient streams
3) Dartmouth Road
4) Glebe Field (name of the field where the 4 main buildings were built)
5) Holy Trinity School (1st building to be built)
6) Surviving buildings around the area in question (all the rest were demolished)
7) Glebe Field used as market gardens and allotments
Thorpewood Avenue being laid out through a certain gap between fields.
9) History of Dartmouth Road using what I call the "past and present" technique of comparing 2 photos at each stretch of the road.
10) The remaining 3 buildings.
But that was only the bare skeleton of the talk; no doubt I've missed out many parts of the structure. What a remarkable journey--planned, organised and executed by Steve--the masterplanner. The highlights for me were seeing the photo of Belvedere House from Thorpewood Avenue before the flats were built, and finding out about Holy Trinity School. No doubt the pools was the main highlight for everyone else, and that is where much flesh was added to the bones. This is when Steve was in his element... he must have scoured the entire universe to find out all the information he relayed to the public on this fateful evening of 28th February 2008. There was an incredible amount of subtle details coming out left, right and center. I couldn't keep up... Steve had census records and marriage certificate of one of the key invidivuals involved with one of the main buildings. You see, he went into great details about the people behind the buildings--not just the buildings themselves. There was one fatality during the construction of the pools... how did Steve manage to find out all this stuff? I mean, I wouldn't even think about checking out minor decorations above window frames etc. Damn, this talk was full on major to say the least. I could talk more about it but I think that's enough for now... Just forget it; if you weren't there then you missed something major. This was beyond Steve's last talk at the pub opposite the station; that one was aimed more at the general public! Imagine some thick hardback book on one part of Forest Hill with illustrations on every page that you can't be bothered to read, and in your dreams you've seen it in a library somewhere... well, Steve read it out tonight!
Where was Will!?!?!? I was asking everyone "Is your name Will?"
Same response everytime "No".
I was hoping to meet Will and Terry/John. Oh well, maybe next time...
Thanks to Pat Trembath for filling me in on the "future" of the pools; the newsletter is much appreciated.
Last edited by Falkor on 28 Feb 2008 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Falkor, thanks for the glowing review. Despite what you say, there was much more information that I could have given. I just feared that my memory, and people's attention span, might not cope. The main sources for this type of information are Vestry and Board of Works minute books, and local newspapers of the time, although it can be quite tedious trawling through them.
You asked about a couple of pictures; I've uploaded them <here> and <here>. I don't think there is any problem with them going into the public domain.
You asked about a couple of pictures; I've uploaded them <here> and <here>. I don't think there is any problem with them going into the public domain.
Thanks Steve; you're much too kind! I was panicking last night, but I've calmed down today. I'm really surprised you've come so far with your research. From my limited experience I've found that some of the key studies centres are corrupt and will try to make it as difficult and expensive as possible for us, in order to discourage the learning of new information; they try and force us to have inferior quality copies or pay the extortionate prices they demand, plus they have a monopoly. How you've managed to overcome so many obstacles without seriously being put off is difficult to imagine, but you must have had a tough ride outside of Lewisham Local Studies--one of the few organisations to actually encourage local history. To be honest, Steve, you must be one of the few genuine people I've ever met during my time and without having a chip on their shoulder etc. I mean, everyone I deal with is a hoarder by nature, yet you don't have this "holding back" mentality at all. I'm really not used to it... If I need a dubplate from another collector, I must first make sure I have something *fresh* and *exclusive* to offer them. Tulse Hill Terry must know all about it I reckon...
I was a bit depressed about the lack of a fossil showing the mutation between the different species of Dartmouth Road photos--much in the same way as medieval and modern day Penge. You can see my frustrations:
Huh!? How are we meant to envisage such a contrast? Here is the missing link...
I was searching everywhere for a photo like that showing Dartmouth Road from more of an angle. That is one seriously rare photo Steve has contributed today--straight into the Top 10 IMO!
So, what's the damage, mate? £10? £100? Most of the stuff Steve puts out is invaluable... same with the Belvedere House view. I still can't believe it's free to Sydenham Town Forum. I don't think many people realise the significance of this... perhaps some people are used to not paying for stuff or don't realise what an expensive hobby this is; if so, just check out Ebay! Well, Steve, atleast you know I'm grateful, mate. Sorry I've got nothing to offer you in return though. I'll bare you in mind for when I win the lottery... I can't share the system with you though, you must understand.
(I'm sure many of the lurkers out there are grateful, too, even if they don't show it)
I was a bit depressed about the lack of a fossil showing the mutation between the different species of Dartmouth Road photos--much in the same way as medieval and modern day Penge. You can see my frustrations:
Huh!? How are we meant to envisage such a contrast? Here is the missing link...
I was searching everywhere for a photo like that showing Dartmouth Road from more of an angle. That is one seriously rare photo Steve has contributed today--straight into the Top 10 IMO!
So, what's the damage, mate? £10? £100? Most of the stuff Steve puts out is invaluable... same with the Belvedere House view. I still can't believe it's free to Sydenham Town Forum. I don't think many people realise the significance of this... perhaps some people are used to not paying for stuff or don't realise what an expensive hobby this is; if so, just check out Ebay! Well, Steve, atleast you know I'm grateful, mate. Sorry I've got nothing to offer you in return though. I'll bare you in mind for when I win the lottery... I can't share the system with you though, you must understand.
(I'm sure many of the lurkers out there are grateful, too, even if they don't show it)
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I imagine this is a rather obscure reference to the names of the houses he built at 108-116 Perry Vale, whose initials (Linstead, Ashdale, Ulverston, Rosaville, Aderleigh) spell out his wife's name.user100 wrote:In what sense was he 'the uxorious Edward C. Christmas' ?
Or it could be because of this, at the side of 55 Dartmouth Road:
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Hi all..
I just got back from Forest Hill ....
I DID get to the Talk on Thursady..but it was late and there was a mob at the door...I was tired and couldnt see or hear, so i went.
However,,,
I did get into both the reserves...and I DID find nearly 1/4 mile of visible Towpath on the Garthorne reserve, as well as some of the canal bed, where I found this;
(early 19th century salt glazed pot...handle missing...possibly a lamp)
here are some teasers of the towpath...
a path cuts though it here;
from inside the canal looking east toward the towpath...(rooughly where i found the pot)
I'll write it up properly over thew next day or so...
such a shame i couldnt get in touch ...
I also found Dead lane and a few other fascinating bits...
next time, we should mount a proper campaign...I reckon there is a lot left t o find.
I just got back from Forest Hill ....
I DID get to the Talk on Thursady..but it was late and there was a mob at the door...I was tired and couldnt see or hear, so i went.
However,,,
I did get into both the reserves...and I DID find nearly 1/4 mile of visible Towpath on the Garthorne reserve, as well as some of the canal bed, where I found this;
(early 19th century salt glazed pot...handle missing...possibly a lamp)
here are some teasers of the towpath...
a path cuts though it here;
from inside the canal looking east toward the towpath...(rooughly where i found the pot)
I'll write it up properly over thew next day or so...
such a shame i couldnt get in touch ...
I also found Dead lane and a few other fascinating bits...
next time, we should mount a proper campaign...I reckon there is a lot left t o find.
Last edited by will greenwood on 2 Mar 2008 22:47, edited 1 time in total.
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...and while we're on the subject of Dartmouth rd...
(I really wish I'd caught that talk!!)......
...oh yeah..theres a talk at the church on one tree hill this week, about the dig at the gun emplacement a few years ago,, and its connection to the zeppellin raids...not sure what day.....
I wish I could go.
(I really wish I'd caught that talk!!)......
...oh yeah..theres a talk at the church on one tree hill this week, about the dig at the gun emplacement a few years ago,, and its connection to the zeppellin raids...not sure what day.....
I wish I could go.