Finding out street numbers?

[Falkor]

Please list sources/techniques for identifying house/street numbers + house names. Here's some I've come up with:

1) Directories
Directories arranged by street can show all house names/numbers, including where they occur in conjunction with another street or a major building like a public house. They can also indicate the end of a street by the smallest or biggest number. However, it's much harder for smaller villages without a street directory sub-section; in this case, entries must be transcribed and sorted inside a spreadsheet or database, though may still contain gaps.

2) Maps
Maps after the 1950s show building numbers. Before that, it's possible to work out the building numbers based on plots if you know the names/numbers of certain buildings in the street, ie. a public house. As you know, one side of a street is usually odd; the other side even, so it's possible to fill in gaps. However, the main problem arises when a building doesn't have a number, and is only known by a name, such as Springfield Cottages (at the top of Springfield Rise).

3) Photos
These may contain captions with name(s)/number(s) of depicted property or properties.

The above techniques, alone, are insufficient for finding out street numbering when it comes to smaller villages, so I need to find out other techniques that may come in useful when tackling this problem. Another part of this problem is when streets are re-numbered, like what happened with Kirkdale and Dartmouth Road; I'd assume directories are the only reliable source in this instance?

Why all this fuss about street numbering? Why is street numbering important? Well, I need to identify this building in St Mary Cray High Street by either name or number:

I had similar problems with Perry Hill in Sydenham/Catford, though fortunately directories have better coverage for these areas. As always, any help would be much appreciated!

[Steve Grindlay]

There is a book published by the London County Council called Names of Streets and Places in the administrative County of London. The most recent edition was, I believe, published in 1955. It lists every street in the LCC area (so no good for Orpington) and gives the date when each street name was first approved. It also gives the house numbers assigned. Lewisham local studies has a copy.

[Falkor]

Thanks Steve. I noticed on some of your map excerpts you've deliberately made a note of the house numbers, so this must have been a problem for you as well. For all the buildings you've managed to identify in historic Sydenham, have you achieved this using only the research techniques listed above? Perhaps you've managed okay based around directories and maps, as coverage for Sydenham and Forest Hill seems pretty good. I have quite easily found out the buildings next door to the Duke as being a grocer and oil dealer etc. If I wanted to identify the tall building in Kirkdale then that might be quite easy, too? Smaller villages seem a lot tougher though...

If I want to find out the street number of Sugahill Cafe I just go up to the door and read the number. However, is there some foolproof way of identifying a demolished building seen on an old map or photograph? The buildings in St Mary Cray High Street, shown above, were all destroyed during the war, from a landmine.

[Steve Grindlay]

Mostly I've used street directories. I've got photocopies (and in some cases originals) of most of the C19 Sydenham and Forest Hill directories and a few of the C20 ones. This makes it possible trace an individual, or the different occupants of a particular house, by comparing entries in a sequence of directories. It is possible to trace changes to the name of a particular house, street re-numbering, even change of street name. By putting this information on a database I can compile a comprehensive account of that street from the time it was first developed until recent times.

Some of the photocopies I got from local studies, but one of the best collections is in the Guildhall Library. Their directories are on microfilm so, at 15p per page, it was an expensive business to copy them, but well worth it. I gave copies to local studies, and they bound them in a single volume and put them with the other directories.

My experience of local history is solely within an urban environment (Sydenham and Exeter). I have no experience of small villages. If the St Mary Cray picture was in Sydenham I would use the largest scale OS map (1:1250, I think) from the 1930s, a Kelly's Directory of the same period, the bomb damage map and any other views of the street. There is certainly no foolproof way of identifying a particular building. The resources we use in local history were, in almost every case, designed for quite different purposes.

[Falkor]

Some of the photocopies I got from local studies, but one of the best collections is in the Guildhall Library. Their directories are on microfilm so, at 15p per page, it was an expensive business to copy them, but well worth it. I gave copies to local studies, and they bound them in a single volume and put them with the other directories.

Yeah, that would work out quite expensive if there was a lot to do. Which directories were local studies missing before you filled in the gaps with the Guildhall copies? Bromley studies seem to have quite a complete collection when it comes to areas in that borough (Kelly's atleast).

My experience of local history is solely within an urban environment (Sydenham and Exeter).

My grandfather and great aunts were born in Exeter! I've never been there myself and haven't a clue about anything, but maybe you can help me out with some photos or something, like when we help people from abroad who visit this forum in search of their ancestor's environment; I sound like them now...




Anyway, thanks for all the other feedback re: street numbering!