Building site on Sydenham High Street

[FromCtoShiningC]

I agree it would be a good thing to see that site become developed. I'm not massively keen on the design (I'd have rather seen something more sympathetic to the early Edwardian buildings on either side).... BUT, the most important thing is to create that development to remove that gap in the high street....
So, the sooner it starts the better. It will also be good for the local shops (e.g. the foot fall from the builders and of course the future residents)..

[mosy]

If I've looked at the same plans for the frontage, it, the mini run, does look sympathetic with the high street to me. Put another way, I'm sure it could have been worse had this developer not tried and be prepared to make an effort beyond a "box". @ FromCtoShiningC, what's not to like? Unless you are looking at a different elevation from the one I viewed.

Whatever access and accommodation is approved behind the frontage is for a different discussion, so no comment at all on that.

[Sydenham Syd]

If I've looked at the same plans for the frontage, it, the mini run, does look sympathetic with the high street to me. Put another way, I'm sure it could have been worse had this developer not tried and be prepared to make an effort beyond a "box". @ FromCtoShiningC, what's not to like? Unless you are looking at a different elevation from the one I viewed.

Whatever access and accommodation is approved behind the frontage is for a different discussion, so no comment at all on that.

I agree - I'm not quite sure which elevation @FromCtoShining is looking at - I think it is very sympathetic to the Edwardian frontage.
I am really looking forward to watching its progress

[leenewham]

It depends on the materials and brick. Many plans look good on paper, like Bell Green did, but in reality it's bloody 'orrible with it's pink breeze block, dirty render and unfinished concrete blocks.

I wish they had put some proper visuals on the site.

It would have been nice to have them set back a bit to encourage al fresco dining. I don't have high hopes for this development. I hope I'm wrong.

[Sydenham Syd]

Fair enough - and I agree, but the images you posted don't look too bad in terms of lines

Besides, surely anything is an upgrade from the disgrace that is the post office and Sydenham Centre or whatever it is called with a dodgy upstairs car park at the back, and as well as that the building that houses the Coop. Both pretty grim

[mosy]

From the planning application:

For the avoidance of doubt, these are the images I'm commenting on.
If the developers decide to use bricks that are sky blue pink with yellow dots on, then it's impossible to know that at this stage so I'm going to remain optimistic until there's cause not to be.

I did notice that they'll stick up higher than the existing skyline, but assuming they "wear in" it's something unlikely to be noticed.

Another example of what not to build "now" - but no doubt would probably have got permission anyway - is the building (currently occupied by Superdrug at ground level) which I think was rebuilt following war damage. That one definitely disrupts the "run", whereas hopefully the one under discussion won't.
We'll see eh?

[FromCtoShiningC]

Thanks for sharing the pictures. I think my view has mellowed somewhat, and actually I would say the forecasted images show a large degree of sympathy with the surrounding early Edwardian structures (that said, I would have rather had something even more fitting with the surrounds, so as to almost match what is there now - but for a host of reasons I know that would not be possible or appropriate).
One of the images shows the old chemist shop which had the lovely shop frontage... oh if only that had been kept ...

It will be a good day when works finally start for proper to transform this empty plot into a vibrant addition to the High Street. Roll on that day....

[leenewham]

It's clad in ribbed, terracotta tiles, not brick. These aren't in bond, they line up.
So it could be like this:


The bay windows will be clad in copper, so will be green.



The recessed parts down the side will be grey framed curtain walling.
The facias to the roofline will be aluminium.
The horizontal line between the windows is a white rendered recessed line.
The shop signs are marked up as being in English Bonded brick, which is a bit odd.

The roof is a standing seam roof in slate grey finish, similar to this:



If feels like a bit of a hodge lodge of materials, without proper renders of the design, it's difficult to make a judgement. It is a similar shape to to the other buildings, but the materials are totally different.

I'd rather have had exactly the same frontages as the existing buildings or something new and different like the Orb has done.

In black and white on a planning document, it's completely different from what it will actually look like, which is another reason why planning doesn't really work.

[mosy]

Thanks go to you of course leenewham for posting the earlier pictures (i.e. not me for reposting them) and also for these pics and info. Appreciated.

[biscuitman1978]

In black and white on a planning document, it's completely different from what it will actually look like, which is another reason why planning doesn't really work.

That's an over-simplification, I'm afraid. The decision on the main planning application was informed by a range of documents which complemented the black and white plans, including a design and access statement. Section 8.0 of that document provides a clear indication of the proposed materials palette. You can view it by searching for application ref DC/14/89339 at http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/

Moreover, a condition was imposed on the planning permission which required that:

No works above ground level shall commence on site until a detailed schedule and samples of all external materials including facing brick, windows, external doors and roof coverings to be used on the buildings have been submitted to and approved in writing by the local planning authority. The development shall be carried out in accordance with the approved details.

You can view the submitted details (though not the samples, of course) by searching for application ref DC/15/92341 at http://planning.lewisham.gov.uk/online-applications/

I'm not saying that the approach is adequate (that's a wider discussion for the Town Pub), but it's wrong to imply that planning is based on a simple assessment of black and white plans.

[mosy]

Thanks biscuitman1978 for extra info and links. The Hanwell bricks do seem to be normal bricks - an internet website gives the dimensions. The buildings either side are a similar colour (people can see those on Google's Streetview if wished), so seem OK and I'm remaining optimistic. The developer could always do a bit of white paint trompe l'oeil for fancy window architraves to match others

[leenewham]

My point about planning was aimed more towards people viewing the site rather than planners, which is quote important.

Of course planners will understand planning statements etc, but the comments made so far by non planners are based on B&W images uploaded to the site.

There are now a baffling amount of uploads on this site. The materials that are shown seem to relate to the back elevations which look far more interesting. It's great that some material sample images are put on these elevations.

The images I put above are based on the materials labelling the elevation on Sydenham Road with the shops. Unless this has changed (I could't work this out, so presume that they are the same as already posted), then what faces Sydenham road will be terracotta ribbed tiles and NOT brick.

But yes, planning is a subject for another thread.

[mosy]

Hmm. I've checked again what the following document says, details:

01:PROPOSED NORTH ELEVATION OF FRONT NEW BUILD ELEMENT.
The drawing no. is: A1396-PL-410/A
There’s a received stamp by LBL of 30 Oct 14.

Files properties say:
DC_14_89339-PROPOSED_NORTH_ELEVATION-317236
Created : 10/11/2014 10:29:54
Modified: 10/11/2014 10:41:15

The drawing has an arrow pointer saying:

"Red multi brick facing brickwork
with semI recessed mortar joints"
----

Where do (or did) you see ridged tiles mentioned anywhere please (since you mention other elevations)?

Other than the above, specific North elevations make no mention of materials. I didn't download all of the numerous .pdfs so only definitive inasmuch as that that is what the above drawing states.

Incidentally, the other notes adjacent to the bricks arrow on above drawing say that all surrounds will be finished in dark grey.

[leenewham]

Hmm, that's a different design the one that had been posted earlier, which was taken from the Planning Portal. The tiles I stated above are written on the images I posted above (I have higher resolution version than what was posted, it's difficult to read it on the version above).

There seem to be lots of different applications now for this that I'm baffled as to which one is the actual one. The version you linked to Mosy looks a lot better than the one I posted, but it would be good to see the actual materials as one of the other plans on another planning application are for the backs.

For the general public, it's very difficult to judge.

[mosy]

Ah yes, I can just make out "Terracotta cladding in ribbed finish" on the earlier drawing you posted. I'm hoping that the Oct 14 "bricks" is a later one up for approval, or something similar, so I'll show faith in the judgement of the planning permission people for the time being.

[FromCtoShiningC]

Hi - I haven't been on the High Street for a while..... does anyone know whether building work has started? I did hear that November was when it would begin in earnest?

[sydres]

Anyone got an update to share about this project? Such an eyesore at present....

[Sydenham Syd]

Anything doing here anyone know? Still looks totally deserted and is just grim looking.

[Kingfisher78]

I've just called Lewisham Planning and have given them the reference number DC/15/92341. They have said that planning permission was granted September 2015 and that they have 3 years to start building or else their planning permission will be taken away. So let's hope they start soon!

[sydres]

The hoarding has sold signs across it this evening....what next I wonder?