The NHS as we knew it !

[Heritage Angle]

(You wait, this'll set the cat among the pidgeons, and rightly so). [ Not Sydenham-specific ].
OK - I should have done this on STF months ago in the run-up to the Bill going through the motions in Parliament but due to doing it elsewhere, didnt.
Anyway, you may or may not know - the wholesale privatisation of our National Health Service in well and truly underway since the 'Health and Social Care Bill' (now an Act) was passed through first the Commons, then the Lords (not without battle I may add) and finally granted Royal Assent by HM queenie (the official rubber stamping process) in March. And this directly affects SE26 people as much as anyone else in the UK - with the exception of those with access to private healthcare of course!!

The vast majority of UK citizens are completely unaware of any of it and this is due to the fact that there has been a very deliberatively secretive blanket of media coverage (collusion is the word) [many of us who were fighting against this have been privy to a document that made clear that the DG of the BBC stands to gain from the act being passed). The few who do believe this 'conspiracy theory' are inevitably unable to grap/believe it. ** Why was is that when 'Bevan's Runners', the two doctors ran from Cardiff to London (the equivellant of six full marathons) in February in order to raise awareness of the health bill, there was zero press presence outside the Dept of Health to cover it???????? Anyway, I could type an entire website on this matter but in essence I will end this piece by saying:

'SICKO' ! The Michael Moore film which he shot here and in the US and in which he reveals starkly exactly how we would become the USA if our healthcare was privatised like theirs is (and guess what folks!). I hear its available on Amazon - GET IT!

Branson's virgin healthcare (joke surely) has, within the past few weeks been awarded million pounds worth of NHS contracts in Surrey (£500 million contract to run Surrey Community Health Services) and is bidding furiously for childrens services in Devon. Staff will be virgin employees, not NHS staff. Profits will go to virgin, not NHS!

Our taxes and NI pay for the NHS where it is needed - NOW it will go to shareholders in virgin, circle care, atos etc. You must understand this: the NHS will still be branded as such and you'll still see the famous NHS logo BUT behind it will be private concerns operating it (all of whom voted for the blues and like branson courted cameron with donations of millions in the 2010 general election campaign (wonder why?).

* Many of you will say "but the NHS is in a right old bloody state.......etc.." (all from media stories). YES WE ALL KNOW THAT! Privatisation aint gonna bloodywell help - thats the point!

'PURCHASER - PROVIDER SPLIT'

"Patient choice" (the reality of this is actually private patients in NHS beds!).

There are various organisations such as Keep Our NHS Public, Health Alert etc who's websites are full of REAL information.
Sweet dreams folks!
The National Health Service (1948 - 2012) - "It will last as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it".

[Heritage Angle]

(You wait, this'll set the cat among the pidgeons, and rightly so). [ Not Sydenham-specific ].
OK - I should have done this on STF months ago in the run-up to the Bill going through the motions in Parliament but due to doing it elsewhere, didnt.
Anyway, you may or may not know - the wholesale privatisation of our National Health Service in well and truly underway since the 'Health and Social Care Bill' (now an Act) was passed through first the Commons, then the Lords (not without battle I may add) and finally granted Royal Assent by HM queenie (the official rubber stamping process) in March. And this directly affects SE26 people as much as anyone else in the UK - with the exception of those with access to private healthcare of course!!

The vast majority of UK citizens are completely unaware of any of it and this is due to the fact that there has been a very deliberatively secretive blanket of media coverage (collusion is the word) [many of us who were fighting against this have been privy to a document that made clear that the DG of the BBC stands to gain from the act being passed). The few who do believe this 'conspiracy theory' are inevitably unable to grap/believe it. ** Why was is that when 'Bevan's Runners', the two doctors ran from Cardiff to London (the equivellant of six full marathons) in February in order to raise awareness of the health bill, there was zero press presence outside the Dept of Health to cover it???????? Anyway, I could type an entire website on this matter but in essence I will end this piece by saying:

'SICKO' ! The Michael Moore film which he shot here and in the US and in which he reveals starkly exactly how we would become the USA if our healthcare was privatised like theirs is (and guess what folks!). I hear its available on Amazon - GET IT!

Branson's virgin healthcare (joke surely) has, within the past few weeks been awarded million pounds worth of NHS contracts in Surrey (£500 million contract to run Surrey Community Health Services) and is bidding furiously for childrens services in Devon. Staff will be virgin employees, not NHS staff. Profits will go to virgin, not NHS!

Our taxes and NI pay for the NHS where it is needed - NOW it will go to shareholders in virgin, circle care, atos etc. You must understand this: the NHS will still be branded as such and you'll still see the famous NHS logo BUT behind it will be private concerns operating it (all of whom voted for the blues and like branson courted cameron with donations of millions in the 2010 general election campaign (wonder why?).

* Many of you will say "but the NHS is in a right old bloody state.......etc.." (all from media stories). YES WE ALL KNOW THAT! Privatisation aint gonna bloodywell help - thats the point!

'PURCHASER - PROVIDER SPLIT'

"Patient choice" (the reality of this is actually private patients in NHS beds!).

There are various organisations such as Keep Our NHS Public, Health Alert etc who's websites are full of REAL information.
Sweet dreams folks!
The National Health Service (1948 - 2012) - "It will last as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it".

"We have now, quiteliterally, six months left in which to try and salvage what is still left of the NHS as we know it...." - Dr. John Lister, health journalist of 30+ years, SEPTEMBER 2012 !

[Eagle]

I am and have always been a great supporter of the NHS.

After years of paying NHS without hardly using it I have in the last 3 years had the use of many services.

I am not saying I share the fear stories , but of course we always have to keep a watchful eye open.

We all know however many ways money could be saved.

1. Translation services should be paid for as in other countries
2....Chaperone services should be paid for.
3....People who are here on holiday , or illegally, would NOT be treated without payment , prior to treatment. i understand this happens in most other countries.
4. British Nationals , 0ver 18 , 2ho have never contributed to NHS , if served at all should go to bottom of the queue.


The NHS like The Welfare state were and in many ways still are great institutions but Beverage and Bevin would turn in their graves if they could see what they have become.

[14BradfordRoad]

We all know however many ways money could be saved.

1. Translation services should be paid for as in other countries
2....Chaperone services should be paid for.
3....People who are here on holiday , or illegally, would NOT be treated without payment , prior to treatment. i understand this happens in most other countries.
4. British Nationals , 0ver 18 , 2ho have never contributed to NHS , if served at all should go to bottom of the queue.


The NHS like The Welfare state were and in many ways still are great institutions but Beverage and Bevin would turn in their graves if they could see what they have become.

Like you Eagle I would like to see some of these things happen. Paying for 'Tourist patients'
or illegals in full does annoy me and should difinitely be stopped. No pay - no treatment
maybe? We can't afford to carry this practise any further.
I watched the programme ( I believe last week) where this scam was highlighted and was I
was really suprised how easy it was for them to get completely free healthcare using false
names, etc to totally avoid / evade coughing up for NHS service recieved.

I doubt that the points you highlight will be put into practise but with the finances being as
bad as they are surely consideration should be given..Not so sure about point 4 though!

[Eagle]

Thanks for your support Mrs Dunlop.

As these are the same principles applied by all other countries , find it hard to understand or justify , why they are NOT applied here.
Our Health Service should be for those who have contributed to it , plus under 18 if they are British Nationals.

[Rachael]

Thanks for your support Mrs Dunlop.

As these are the same principles applied by all other countries , find it hard to understand or justify , why they are NOT applied here.
Our Health Service should be for those who have contributed to it , plus under 18 if they are British Nationals.

Eh?

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Bazman76]

I am believe your fears are well founded Heritage Angle.

The real reason for these reforms is to cut costs, this is why so many doctors are against it.

The most obvious case locally being the proposed closure of the A&E department at Lewisham.

Like I've said elsewhere David Cameron has gone from "no top down reform", to to cuts to front line services to this...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/79087 ... vices.html

Cameron is a total liar, he really is the heir to Blair.

[Eagle]

Bazman

You have made a statement against our PM which could land you in legal trouble. Not even in the commons can you call people liars.

[Tim Lund]

I know this Café is sometimes a bit quiet - and I hope it's not because of me going on about my Sydenham Harvest - but shouldn't this thread be in the Pub or Hall?

[Bazman76]

Eagle I am perfectly safe he's on record saying there would be no cuts to front line services:

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/theto ... meron.html

The truth however was somewhat different.

Further I believe that Cameron's ill conceived attack on the NHS will mean he is the one in trouble come election time.

Totally agree this thread should be in the pub or hall.

[Eagle]

You have called him a Liar.
Where has he said there will be cuts in front line services?

[Bazman76]

The cuts are there for all to see, Lewisham A&E for a start + more generally

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healt ... ealed.html

Thre are loads of other examples I'd be happy to post more if you wish.

[Eagle]

Seems the article states significantly more doctors and nurses. This is not a back and white issue.

I do agree unfair that Lewisham has been dragged into this review when they were NOT part of the problem. The other trust caught a cold with PPI under Tony Blair Esq.

Both parties are to blame. If Labour had not over borrowed in a boom ( why would you borrow in a boom some would ask ), we would not be in this dire situation.

Labour refuses to say where they would cut but admitting cuts are required.

[Bazman76]

Net net the amount of money going into the NHS is decreasing, that is why the majority of the modeical profession are against it.

I agree that PPI was a disaster for the taxpayer, but why are the Toties are carrying on with similar public/private partnerships at a time when long term borrowing costs are at an all time low?

I don't disagree that Labour are also to blame, but the real issue is why are the way large companies can pay as little as 2% tax on their UK earnings?

Vodaphone got out of paying 8billsion in UK tax!! Against that the £17 raised from selling the lewisham A&E department is a drop in the ocean.

Again this lax tax system was introduced under labour, but the Tories rather than try and fix it during the last 2.5 years are actively promoting it.

David Gauke thye Tory exchequer secratary praised the light touch regulation saying that "how companies experience the UK tax system is as important to tax competitiveness as the headline rates we set" and that "multinationals were telling him that the UK compares very favourably with other countries on this score". This is because the experience they want is not too many questions asked.

Indeed one of the big four accountancy firms said that "HMRC has no meaningful activity in this area" allowing multinationals to take their tax avoidance schemes to the limt and virtually wipe out their UK tax contributions.

As I said Gauke has been actively promoting the current situation, he recently headed to the US with the CBI's head tax honcho to demonstrate just how far he has surrendered to big business, they gave a seminar "UK tax reform: a Roadmap for the US?" at which gauke and CBI's tax chairman Will Morris-also tax director as notorious tax dodger General Electric-paraded the tax cuts and offshore tax breaks that Gauke and his boss George Osbourne has given British multinationals-the impliaton being they would be good for the US too.

There is not logical reason for these tax breaks, are you telling me Apple for example will walk away from 6bn in UK sales if they had to may the appropriate amount of UK tax on those sales...I think not.

It just shows how the Tories (and Labour) are in the pocket of the multinationals and we all suffer as a result.

[Eagle]

If you asked anyone in 2004 if it were a Boom , I would imagine they would say yes.

Yet the Government in situ wanted to find every way possible to make 90% of the population dependent on rebates , benefits etc.

In the good times they should have not only not borrowed but paid down the debt.

The NHS is a great idea which works partly but also does not problems.

As stated we are one of the few countries that treat foreigners for free. Being Tourists or Illegals.
Also what other countries pay for champerone services and translator services.

You always see signs saying only say 79% turned up for clinic appointments last month or phoned to advise. Therefore 21% did not bother to even cancel , causing much waste. These people should be charged if they want future treatment.

Drunks should be charged fully for ALL treatment. It is a disgrace that other patients and staff get abused by drunks in A and E.

There are other examples where savings could be made.

All citizens should treat hospitals and staff with respect and deference . I have seen to many rude members of the public being rude to staff and fellow patients. Usually sounds like the ones that pay nothing at all to the NHS , but expect all back.

[Eagle]

I agree companies should pay FULL tax.
I am boycotting Starbucks. Refuse to use the infamous Twitter and Facebook.

Cannot argue we need to collect Full Tax ( even from Ken Livingstone ), but let us not stop supporting Lewisham Hospital.

[Bazman76]

Good then you are against the Tories current policy of not taxing multinationals and selling off school playfields and hospitals instead right?

Oh and on the PPI, thing Michael Gove scrapped the last governments Future PFI program but has replaced it with a new program where schools are to be designed by Tesco and Curry's? But gove has stuck with private funding for the project even when governement borrowing costs are at an all time low.

The new result if schools that are 15% smaller (those pesky architectural watchdogs were not circumvented) and cost 30% less to run that before. This was presented as an efficiency saving but the truth is those savings were dwarfed by the extra costs of the paying for the private finance that costs twice as much as public borrowing???????

So why are the Tories like Labour so keen to sign up to PFI schemes that are great for big business and terrible for the taxpayer? I would so that it is because big business has both of them in their pocket.

[Eagle]

Both Parties are keen on PFI because it means payment comes on someone elses watch. Simple as that.
Nothing at all to do with liking or otherwise business.

The next generation will have to pay unless the country goes bankrupt.

[Bazman76]

That's incorrect Eagle it does not postpone the payments at all, it just another financing arrangement where fees (interest) is paid through the whole life of the project. It just happens to be very expensive way of doing things.

The advantage for government is that they don't appear as part of the goverment deficit figures. Thus allowing the government to hide such liabilities off balance sheet.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... jects.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/399b978a-8d4e ... z2BMN1i4ZR

Anyway you were happy to criticise Labour for using such schemes (quite right too) but why won't you criticise the Tories for doing the same?

[Eagle]

I criticise ALL parties for PFI.