The Evolution Of Forest Hill Station (WIP)

The History of Sydenham from Cippenham to present day. Links to photos especially welcome!
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Falkor
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Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

The Evolution Of Forest Hill Station (WIP)

Post by Falkor »

Following on from my discussions with perryman and Steve Grindlay, I'm going to attempt to put everything I know about Forest Hill station in context for the general reader. It won't be anywhere near as clear or detailed as John Coulter's take on Sydenham Road, early Forest Hill and Peak Hill in his book, "Sydenham and Forest Hill Past", but here goes anyway...

The London and Croydon Railway Company purchased the Croydon Canal in 1836 and laid it's tracks generally along the same route as the canal after it had been drained in 1838.

The Croydon Canal, which can be seen on the c1812 Sydenham Common enclosure award map below, had opened in 1809.
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The view is taken from Honor Oak in the direction of Forest Hill station, showing some of the Honor Oak Road houses in the background. In the foreground is the last 2 locks of the 29 that started at New Cross to help the bargees ascend the terrain; most locks--#11 to #29--were between Brockley Station and Honor Oak Park (the predecessor to this road can be seen in the engraving crossing horizontally over the swing bridge coupled with the top of the staircase lock). It was a simple, but slow, journey from here to Croydon. Straight ahead was one of the most attractive parts of the canal set inside Honor Oak Wood. The canal emerged out of the woods when winding eastwards across the line of the future Devonshire road, before winding back round to the south towards Davids Road with woodland still on the eastern bank as far as Woodcombe Crescent.
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Part of the old canal south of Honor Oak Park lasted until atleast 1894--longer than the Davids Road stretch--with footbridges at regular intervals over it, complete with tennis court and more private gardens on the far side.

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Remains of the canal? Photo taken from the pathway at the side of the railway line--said to be a remnant of the canal towpath.

"Problems for the promoters were that there was leakage from the canal bed and slippage along the cuttings, especially in the Forest Hill area".[1]

"By the 1930s the canal's unprofitability was causing serious problems. The locks deterred more of the commercial traffic and the canal's banks were insecure, especially those at Forest Hill, which were continually slipping."[1]

Dartmouth Arms station opened in 1839 and was renamed Forest Hill station in 1845. "The station was described as 'a neat structure of brick with dressings of stone, surrounded by a substantial wall with folding gates'".[1]

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The original Dartmouth Arms station must be the small building seen in the center of the above illustration, with the Dartmouth Arms pub among the small group of buildings to the right. The houses to the left were in Stanstead Road, below the banks of the railway line. This illustration was published in the same year that the railway opened, after the company had cut through most of Honor Oak Wood.

"The booking hall of the original Dartmouth Arms station of 1839 stood just south of what is now the line of the subway [Circle 1 on the map displayed further below]. A level crossing then took London Road directly across the tracks"[3] onto Perry Vale.
The source for that information is "The Croydon Railway", published in 1839 to celebrate the opening of the line. This is the full quote, with the writer describing the journey through FH station:

"As we pass along the embankment, we perceive ahead an orange-red disc on top of a white pole; suddenly it revolves and becomes invisible, by which we are assured that the gates at the station, placed across the railway to protect persons travelling along the road - which is here intersected on a level - are thrown open and we may proceed"

There was a level crossing from 1839 to 1844 when, because of the number of accidents, the road was diverted into Waldram Crescent, as today.

An 1839 railway map in the above book shows London Road continuing in a straight line across the track. But, as Falkor says, it is impossible to relate that to the considerable drop in height.
[2]

How London Road once descended onto Perry Vale over the railway line via a level crossing is still a mystery, but the key to solving it must be with the banks, Waldram Crescent development, and/or:
One source suggests that the subway was created in 1852, when the original two tracks were increased to four. There was a central platform and the subway was created to give access to that platform (you can still make out the bricked-up entrance in the subway wall).
[2]
The Perry Vale side of Forest Hill almost looks like a bricked up viaduct from ground level to track level, built with several layers of bricks evident from different time periods.

I would guess that before (i.) the creation of the subway, (ii.) increased width of the railway and (iii.) bricked up Perry Vale side, the slope from London Road down to Perry Vale would have had a more gradual decline for the traffic to pass safely--or is the hill partly to blame for the closing of the level crossing?

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1843 Tithe Map

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1849 Drainage Map

Waldram Crescent had been laid in-between the publication of the above 2 maps; was the embankment completely bored through with a bridge constructed over the top? There is a major dip in the ground around this area, so presumbly some serious digging once took place here.
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The second circle on the 1843 map marks the approximate 5 year location of the gothic boiler house for the 1-2 years that the London and Croydon Railway experimented with atmospheric-propulsion:
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The engraving shows the engine house (with three gables) and the boiler house (with the chimney disguised as a bell tower) that provided power to the atmospheric railway. The view is from the up platform across the line towards Perry Vale. The building was on the site now enclosed by Waldram Park Crescent.

The carriages are an atmospheric train (with no engine, of course) and the tube by which they were sucked along the track can be seen between the lines. The atmospheric railway was opened in January 1846 and closed the following year. The engine and boiler houses were largely demolished in 1851
[2]

A new Forest Hill station was planned in 1852; below is an architect's proposed design:
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It was built in 1854, but not to the above design; it's rear elevation is seen to the left in this 1860s photo below, along with the dangerous center platform:
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Is this the 1854 station building from the front...?
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Is this also 1854 building? Were cars on the road this early?
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1860s maps to be inserted here
Devonshire Road and Davids Road had been laid with shops built on the bed of the canal. Some cottages had been built next to the railway:
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There was also another booking hall on the Perry Vale side, but when was this built?
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1894 map to be inserted here
Railway Cottages were demolished in the 1880s.
In 1883, a third Forest Hill station had replaced the second:
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description to be inserted here

"The final piece of the Forest Hill tram system was added in 1915, when track was laid between London Road and Waldram Park Road. This involved demolishing the shop at the corner of London Road and Devonshire Road, to ease the bend, and deepening the road under the bridge"[4]
Even more digging around this spot!? And demolition of 2 London Road:
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Forest Hill station, showing center platform and 3rd booking hall to the left (compare with similar photo above)
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Blocked up entrance to the center platform (no longer exists), from the subway, along this stretch:
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To be edited and continued...!

Sources

[1] Sydenham & Forest Hill by Joan P. Alcock.
[2] Steve Grindlay.
[3] Forest Hill & Sydenham by John Coulter and John Seaman.
[4] Sydenham and Forest Hill Past by John Coulter.

Illustration acknowledgements to be added

I've ordered a copy of the British Railway Journal No71 that Steve suggested getting, and will hopefully be able to add more information to this topic, including photos showing the fate of the 1883 building! In the meantime, I would appreciate:
*Corrections
*Feedback
*Alternative interpretations
*Additional information/photos.

BTW, I also one day hope to finish my guide on the evolution of Wells Park Road!
Last edited by Falkor on 11 May 2007 17:24, edited 5 times in total.
perryman
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Post by perryman »

What an excellent post.

Not sure about the lock at Forest Hill (station) though.

Records are pretty clear that there was only a swing bridge next to the corner bookies at Forest Hill, not a lock. The 1812 enclosure map only shows a bridge. This picture shows a lock.

Today, to the eye, it seems fairly level from Davids Rd to the alley way next to the railway, (give or take 200 years of road engineering). No lock seems necessary. Unless of course the canal dropped to the level of Perry Vale here, running east of the current railway for a stretch, but that really does set the cat amongst the pigeons.

The less complex view would be that the lock shown is the Honor Oak Park lock (http://www.londoncanals.co.uk/croydon/hopk.html), and the lane was Honor Oak Park. Looking at the picture on the London canals site, this lock looks identical to the one you show, but from the reverse view.

(Another observation: That lad opening the gates to what seems like an enormous lock, just to let a little barge through. Well no wonder the canal was dry for most of the year and went bust.
The lock keeper should have stopped snoozing by his open fire and given him a thick ear. There's room for another 10 barges in there!)

I too wonder where the Forest Hill Wharf was. If the Dartmouth Arms supposedly opened because of the trade the canal brought, where were the boats moored?
I've suggested the pond at Davids Rd as a potential candidate before, but try as I might, it just does not ring true.
Falkor
Posts: 1371
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

Not sure about the lock at Forest Hill (station) though.
Me neither... :(
Records are pretty clear that there was only a swing bridge next to the corner bookies at Forest Hill, not a lock. The 1812 enclosure map only shows a bridge. This picture shows a lock.
I would like to do some more research to see if it can be determined exactly where these 28 locks, whalves and various bridges (of different types) were located, but detailed information on the Croydon Canal seems pretty scarce.
The less complex view would be that the lock shown is the Honor Oak Park lock (http://www.londoncanals.co.uk/croydon/hopk.html), and the lane was Honor Oak Park. Looking at the picture on the London canals site, this lock looks identical to the one you show, but from the reverse view.
That site is the best source of info I have access to at the moment. I love some of those colour paintings; I wonder how many others exist? I used to hate art, but I've fallen in love with this picture showing the canal through a valley:
http://www.londoncanals.co.uk/croydon/c ... dnxlck.jpg

Here's another painting published in source [4] identified as the Honor Oak Park lock; all 3 deserve a closer examination and comparison:
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The lock keeper should have stopped snoozing by his open fire and given him a thick ear. There's room for another 10 barges in there!)
:lol:
I too wonder where the Forest Hill Wharf was. If the Dartmouth Arms supposedly opened because of the trade the canal brought, where were the boats moored?
Good question! BTW, do you know which parts of the Dartmouth Arms pub are the oldest and dating from which period? It's said to be the oldest building in Forest Hill, but I can't find much info in my books. Also, do you remember what Steve spoke about at the summit of Church Rise? I can't find any info on that, either.
I've suggested the pond at Davids Rd as a potential candidate before, but try as I might, it just does not ring true.
You mean the part where the canal widened along the bend of Davids Road? The canal also opened up in the Millenium Green area at the bottom of Albion Villas Road, which can be reached from the railway footpath (a third of the way down); it's said that a canal feeder went from here to the Sydenham reservoir, but it's not shown on the c1812 map. An obvious canal feeder ran down Dartmouth Road and London Road before turning off towards the Davids Road corner, where the tongue of canal sticking out there indicates a possible connection with the big feeder via another smaller feeder; a similar feature is evident on the feeder between Wells Park Road and Jews walk, which once connected with 2 streams from Wells Park. Small watercourses often go unrecorded on maps.
Falkor
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Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

Okay, I've updated the paragraph of the canal engraving, added an illustration for an early design of the 2nd station building, and corrected the date of the 3rd station building.
Malcolm
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Joined: 15 Nov 2006 17:11
Location: London

Forest Hill Station

Post by Malcolm »

Wonderful history lesson Falkor! I have fond memories of the last station before the current shoebox was built. The centre platform was still being used in the 1960s from time to time but was always very chilly and exposed! The old Down platform ticket office and yard shown in your pic ended its days as a huge junk shop with all sorts of stuff laid out in the yard, went there many times.
Thanks again! :D
Falkor
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Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
Location: Surrey Quays

Post by Falkor »

I might have to abort this... After reading the Railway Journals article, the evolution of Forest Hill station is far more complex than I ever envisaged; the level crossing probably had more to do with the swing bridge that remained on the site after the canal closed. Oh man I give up... It took me about 3 days to properly read and understand that article; I won't be able to relay all the info without plaigarising (I'm not even going to lookup how to spell this word correctly).
multisync
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Joined: 5 Sep 2007 06:12
Location: upper sydenham

Forest Hill Station

Post by multisync »

Reading this article I remember when we used to live in Forest Hill.We lived in some flats called Noel Terrace[which are still standing] at the time they were gas lit one of the neighbours jobs was to go up and down the stairs and ignite the landing lights.Our radio source came from radio relay which i believe was based in Stanstead Road.We had allotments to one side and a glue factory to the other.The old wooden signal box for the station was at the end of the path.We then went along Clyde Vale at the end of which was a[bomb site] which later became the garden which then became industrial.There were a row of houses facing the site and behind that a group of cottages built around a square which was behind the old Jocelyns sweet shop,this was Clyde Terrace or late Raglan Street.Any photos or does anybody know of a reason why these roads have Scottish names
Falkor
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Joined: 10 Feb 2006 17:45
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Post by Falkor »

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