It is noticeable now that Riney's are well underway with the pavements (and doing a fine job) just how barren it looks if looking up and down the road: endless bland concrete colour and traffic of course but no trees!
Does anyone know if trees - at least an odd one or two - are planned on the road?
Hot sunshine (chance would be a fine thing, lol) can be overwhelming with no shade especially if window shopping or carrying shopping. Shops don't seem to have awnings (pull-out blinds) as they once did - or perhaps they do but it's not yet sunny enough? Trees can help with both noise and pollution, which is not to be sneezed at
Can anyone update me on the plan, or if no plan for trees the wisdom of not having any?
Some trees at the newly pedestrianised bit of Venner Rd. That's about your lot.
Not so - you are only looking at the part top of that PDF. If you look at the bottom part, there are trees along the south side of Sydenham Road and trees in the new pocket park by the Co-Op funeral home.
According the the PDF on the same website, they will plant trees according to where they found the services to be lying when doing the initial work. So I imagine they will take up a small amount of the new paving to put the trees in towards the end of the project.
Thank you Rachael as I can now see all planned trees. hairybuddha is right though about the paucity at the west end and north side and seemingly also none proximate to the roundabout which is said to be the entrance to Sydenham Road aesthetically. Very odd. Might "they" do a rethink on that stretch or is the budget fully accounted for? Can only ask...
Still, at least some trees already planned. Yay! Trees!
Some while ago I went into Riney's and was reassured that the trees were all in hand - sadly the four planned for the pocket park by Lloyds are being reduced to two because of underground services .
They were helpful , and I came away with the sense that played with a straight bat.
I think we need to watch things very carefully though. It would be a tragedy to miss out on trees - even one - and my own preference would be for 10 times the amount planned.
I know a regular strategist and contributor to this forum has warned us about the crippling cost of removing the odd plastic bag from their graceful boughs from time to time but they will be the crowning glory of the recent improvements so let's not allow them to be forgotten.
My own preference would be for white beams but not to foist my taste on others , I would welcome anything big green and leafy with the exception of conifers which are in the main detestable.
I am really impressed with the overall effect of the new paving , bike stands etc.
A very good evening
Nigel
I totally agree with you Nigel. Trees are so important for the high street and I would also have liked to have seen even more than in the plans. Too much concete with no greenery just looks awful.
Having said that, I do think Riney are doing a fab job on the pavement, it looks heaps better than it did. Originally I thought the trees were meant to be planted in early May before the summer though- but cant see any yet. I also spoke to Riney and I got the impression the council has another company responsible for the tree planting. Does anyone know?
Chris Best did confirm trees were definately coming and the bins were being replaced in the March Sydenham Assembley. Chris - do you have any further updates on this ?
jonekt wrote:I totally agree with you Nigel. Trees are so important for the high street and I would also have liked to have seen even more than in the plans. Too much concete with no greenery just looks awful.
Having said that, I do think Riney are doing a fab job on the pavement, it looks heaps better than it did. Originally I thought the trees were meant to be planted in early May before the summer though- but cant see any yet. I also spoke to Riney and I got the impression the council has another company responsible for the tree planting. Does anyone know?
Chris Best did confirm trees were definately coming and the bins were being replaced in the March Sydenham Assembley. Chris - do you have any further updates on this ?
The best time of year to plant trees is in the autumn, so plenty of time yet.
Our street will soon be involved in quite extensive additional works by Riney and we met to discuss the whole thing with its Manager (Jim?)
I raised the topic of the trees and we were told that a series of problems have been encountered that may hinder the planting: to do with, and I quote, underground cables and services potentially damaged by the roots and the initial digging itself. They are considering alternatives, such as raised boxes heavily planted with ornamental flowers etc.
For discussion and further clarity on this and general progress of works, the right time and place to be is Tuesday the 4 June, at the TNG (the new Youth Centre on the corner of Wells Park Road), where an Assembly meeting will happen from 7 to 9. Will be there..... this is so important for our area, I agree with you all!
Maria wrote:[clip]...They are considering alternatives, such as raised boxes heavily planted with ornamental flowers etc. [clip]...
This sounds very disappointing. I do hope that The Powers That Be exhaustively check for all possible options for placement of trees before giving up on them, or any (more) of them.
Does anyone know of any planters that actually work after their first year? I only know of ones that became bedraggled convenient litter bins and were quite quickly concreted over so becoming expensive clutter/follies (in a different borough) which is not the plan here given removal of street furniture and clutter has been a welcome priority.
Seems to me the obvious solution is trees in planters. They won't be as tall as those planted in the ground and will need more watering, but not much more than planters with other sorts of planting.
Indeed, or a mixture of planted and tub trees. If tree planting has been contracted to a company other than Riney, then hopefully it is one who knows about trees, lol, and won't just say "Sorry Mate". I like the idea of "Big Boss" tactics: "OK, then find somewhere they can be planted!".
It also seems ironic that private property trees have preservation orders on them yet the council could (not saying they will) colloquially "turn round and say" emotionlessly "We've decided only to do paving stones and tarmac for the most part." That would surely be a cop-out on many levels.
Good to hear that August is planting time (so not yet); am I right in thinking they'd want to plant already growing/established trees so less susceptible to being pushed over etc by vandals?
Not August - autumn. You want the soil still to be warm, but you don't want any hot days. Let the tree get settled before the first frosts. So September or October are best. Even November at a push.
If you're putting out tub trees, however, there are no timing issues.
I've worked alongside architects in high street improvement schemes on a few high streets now and they always check at the times of the design with thorough surveys first. I'd be very surprised if this hadn't been done at design stage.
I gather that a consideration as well as myriad underground services, is that lower down Sydenham Road the water table is high so trees (roots) would be unlikely to survive due to waterlogging. Seemingly, from a helpful Riney person this morning, they (paraphrased) have reported feasibility or otherwise of possible tree locations to the council.
Trees survive in Home Park and Fairlawn Park and surrounding areas. Is the water table lower the closer we get to the river at Bell Green?
You will find that lots of excuses are given to limit trees in such schemes. Trees are expensive it maintain. Councils don't really like them traditionally, they drop leaves, get vandalised etc. This may not be the case here...or could it?
also to consider is the Flood Water Management Act 2010 which will soon make it the local authority which is resposible for surface water drainage. currently any new build, or redevelopement has to have considered Sustainable Drainage Systems (SuDS) - these are ways of slowing down water flow from solid surfaces, into the sewer system, and possibly cleaning it as well. currently water runs off roofs, and solid footway and carriageway surfaces, into gulleys, along pipes to sewers, and then straight into water course. In extreme events (1 in 30 years or more) you get flash flooding, and surcharging (where the system can't cope with the amount of water, and it backs up and flows out of gulleys onto roads). SuDS are ways to slow down the water before it gets to the gulley - this can be done with rain gardens (on houses) but for roads, a better solution is tree planting, raised beds and permeable pavements. Tree are often planted in a 1m x 1m x 1m area of top soil - not great for the tree. There are available systems which have a much larger dug out area for each tree, where the top is covered in permeable pavement, water drains through layers, taking out silt, and impurities, and then into the gulley. the tree gets more water, the whole thing is almost maintenance free, the tree looks good, and the water is slowed down and cleaned before hitting the sewer.
I hope that SuDS was considered in this scheme, but it seems unlikely.
