FixMyStreet drinkers?

[Tim Lund]

At the SydSoc AGM last night, a request from the Police was passed for members of the public to assist them with collecting evidence and enforcing the new Drink Control Zone - http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5766 - by taking photographs of such offending behaviour.

My immediate thought was that the best way to do this would be to ask the people responsible for FixMyStreet to add an option to their system for 'report to police', so that any photographs so submitted - which would come with location and time automatically recorded - would then simply be forward to which ever police team would be responsible - which could be worked out automatically from the location.

Of course it's not quite as easy as this, because quite a few people would not much want to be seen by street drinkers taking pictures of them - it would require any such public-minded citizens to be a bit sneaky, and a bit brave. On the other hand, it would probably be less of an 'ask' than asking them to give evidence formally the way they might be expected to currently. Some people - Bensonby? - might also think it infringed civil liberties - that's something we could debate.

The real problem with the idea, I suspect, would simply be inefficient, out dated police systems.

[bensonby]

My opinions on the drinking control zone are well published elsewhere on this forum. However, I certainly don't see how anyone taking a photograph in a public place is infringing anyone's civil liberties: indeed, anyone suggesting that we shouldn't take pictures (or be allowed to) is a greater threat to civil liberties.

[ Post made via Mobile Device ]

[Tim Lund]

My opinions on the drinking control zone are well published elsewhere on this forum. However, I certainly don't see how anyone taking a photograph in a public place is infringing anyone's civil liberties: indeed, anyone suggesting that we shouldn't take pictures (or be allowed to) is a greater threat to civil liberties.

Well said, Bensonby.

[NEMO]

Yes well said!

[Tim Lund]

An interesting radical idea has been put to me on this, by an old gentleman going on about black Mercs parked on double yellow lines outside the Co-op,



but who seems not to be up to date enough with modern technology to have a mobile phone with camera. The old gentleman's point was that the police should do better to encourage citizens to photograph and report such anti-social behaviour by motorists, and that because fines could be recovered, the police could even offer an incentive to such civic-minded citizen photo-reporters. In fact the idea gets better, because although many citizens will hesitate to antagonise the respectable sorts of people who do drive around in black Mercs - and other types of car, of course - on Sydenham Road we have a very public group of citizens who couldn't give a monkeys - our street-drinkers!

Obviously part of the deal would be that the street-drinkers would limit their own anti-social behaviour to this proposed legitimated form - and the threat of withholding payments which the police controlled would be more credible than fining them up to £500 when it would probably waste more than that in police time trying to enforce.



Of course, I'm not sure if the old gentleman was serious

[CaptainCarCrash]

So you're asking people to be a coppers nark over some pisshead street drinkers?

This is typical curtain twitcher territory.

[Tim Lund]

Curtain twitching, or responsible citizenship - where do you draw the line? I'm guessing there are some things you might see or hear, Mike, that would make you call the police on 999? Would that make you a coppers' nark?

I hardly think the police above reproach, and when I think about it I feel revolted that the weak and powerless can get criminalised by a system that allows the rich and powerful, but unscrupulous, to get away with behaviour that on another thread I characterised as 'liberal kleptocracy' http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5817.

But I'm still enough of a Guardian reading curtain-twitcher that when I learn of the police wanting help from the public, my immediate reaction is to want to help them, even if it does leave me open to satire from old gentlemen who don't have access to modern mobile phones.

[CaptainCarCrash]

Curtain twitching, or responsible citizenship - where do you draw the line? I'm guessing there are some things you might see or hear, Mike, that would make you call the police on 999? Would that make you a coppers' nark?

I hardly think the police above reproach, and when I think about it I feel revolted that the weak and powerless can get criminalised by a system that allows the rich and powerful, but unscrupulous, to get away with behaviour that on another thread I characterised as 'liberal kleptocracy' http://forum.sydenham.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5817.

But I'm still enough of a Guardian reading curtain-twitcher that when I learn of the police wanting help from the public, my immediate reaction is to want to help them, even if it does leave me open to satire from old gentlemen who don't have access to modern mobile phones.

If it were a serious issue about real criminals and not some harmless failed by the sytem unfortunate drink dependant missfits who are affecting house prices then I'd understand. Maybe society should look at the root cause and target that to solve the issue rather than have the police ask for the public to photograph people with a can in their hand. It's just too much of a big brother mentality.

This is a waste of money IMHO The police should be out there solving real crime.

If I see something that warrants police action then I'll call them but this is just another orwellian infringment on cival liberties and its left wing bullshit like this that is helping to move us into a police state.

[CaptainCarCrash]

If you feel that you must photograph somebody cheekily parked on a double yellow then I think thats sad, traffic control is about generating easy money for the council

Is it good citizenship? I don't like it tbh, I've said in the past that I'm not politically motivated the more I feel drawn to making a stand against the things I disagree with the more I feel I should just ignore it because I don't want to be drawn into anything political. All of this stuff though is making me feel I should abandon London and move to a rural community where life isn't about what some bloke in a black merc is doing or street drinkers.

I recon I could drive a tractor, what are the hours?

Do you have political ambitions Tim? I can see you as an MP/councilour.

I'm really showing my true colours by what I've said here, I don't condone street drinkers but I do feel empathy for them because all people seem to want to do is enforce legislation which I feel doesn't target the issue, it just pushes it to another area. Although good for the appearance of the local area just moves the problem and solves nothing.

People get strung out on junk and choose that way of life but society needs to take a good long look at itself.

[Tim Lund]

Mike

There are many reasons not to move to the country, but here are two: first you'll be totally stuck when your car finally breaks down, and second, you'll come across many more curtain twitchers.

And while you might be able to see me as a councilor, no party with realistic chances of winning has ever shared your opinion. OTOH, I am told that two others, at opposite ends of the political spectrum, thought about it last year, at least momentarily. I felt honoured.

To be serious, I think most councillors get into it with the idea of making a positive contribution to society, and most - maybe slightly fewer - stay at it with the same intent. So on balance, I think we should appreciate our Councillors, and get over the times when they do things that annoy us.

[CaptainCarCrash]

My car is dead, I scraped it this morning, I got £125 for it. It served me reasonably well but needed serious work doing. New injectors = total head strip + Timing Chain replacement which would have cost me neigh on £2k so not worth it I paid £3500 for it 7 years ago so not a bad return. I bought a Ford Mondeo 2.0l Ghia automatic for £1k to make sure I can get to where I need to go it's an almost uninspiring drive and the realisation I'm a dead beat Mondeo man is a harrowing one , its a bit juicy but I can't be driving up the M1 in a hair dryer powered micro box and there'll be no more of that clutch lark stuck in London's traffic which is good news now my knee is really playing me up.

Fair enough though Tim and good on you for trying to make a difference and making a selfless contribution to the community, it really is commendable that you're sacrificing your own time to try and improve things so I take my hat off to you for that.

[Tim Lund]

Thanks Mike. It's not totally selfless - I find real life interesting in the same way some people might find a soap interesting. And of course I do also enjoy writing on this Forum - so there's a certain amount of ego involved, which I know gets up some people's noses. But that's enough of the confessional ...

[CaptainCarCrash]

Thanks Mike. It's not totally selfless - I find real life interesting in the same way some people might find a soap interesting. And of course I do also enjoy writing on this Forum - so there's a certain amount of ego involved, which I know gets up some people's noses. But that's enough of the confessional ...

Fair enough, we've all got ego's. You should have seen me two weeks ago Tim when I was on stage, by the time it was all over I had to contend with the reality I had to pack up my gear and go home and get ready for work. I felt a bit bipolar afterwards, I was on a massive high from playing a successful gig only to be shot down in flames with the reality of being a swap out monkey for a computer company, such is life.