A SYMBOL FOR SYDENHAM

[Rebelmc]

Sorry if I appear to be peeing on the bonfire, but why the green dragon?

It might well have the claim to being the oldest symbol associated with Sydenham, but surely the gateway to Sydenham (as we know it today) is better represented by a greyhound?

I've lived here, on and off, for 35 years or so, and The Greyhound pub represents the beginning of Sydenham to me; it predates Cobbs by a substantial margin (and outlasted that particular department store by 20 odd years).

For me, I don't really enter Sydenham proper until I've gone past the Greyhound; sure, Kirkdale and Wells Park Road have their place in history, but there's nothing there that really represents modern Sydenham.

[leaf]

Im glad you posted that rebelmc, i agree with what you're saying.

When i first read this thread i thought 'how does this dragon symbolise sydenham?'

It does not spring to mind when i think of sydenham and to be honest id never heard of it until now and like rebel i have lived in sydenham all of my life,

I too think the greyhound is much more associated with sydenham as a recognisable symbol.

Sorry to be negative

But well done for the idea in principle.

[poppy]

I think giving Sydenham a distict identity is a great idea, I can't stand those faded blue Lewisham boards or some of the bins which are still around. They look cheap and nasty. (would need something to welcome people at the other ends too, near Kent House Road and up near the Woodman pub)

But I think, and I am sure those of you involved would ensure this, that it is tasteful. We don't want to end up with something like the Catford Cat do we? Even if the kids would love it.

[Tim Lund]

Leaf, rebelmc

I don't think you are being negative. Lee spoke to me some time ago on this subject, and to be honest I didn't have a very good idea; we don't have an obvious local symbol, and in fact, SydSoc membership cards resort to borrowing the very strong but not exactly Sydenham symbol of the Crystal Palace TV mast. So if we do want a symbol there's going to have to be an element of invention about it. Personally, I think the green dragon looks good, but I could be persuaded that something else works better. If we accept that we need a symbol, we do need ideas to be put up, discussed (as you are doing), and most importantly, used by those who will ultimately make the decisions. I have been directing the attention of Ian Plowright, the officer responsible for the Sydenham Road renewal project, to this thread, and encouraging him to make himself known, but I suspect rules get in the way. Even so, I think there is a very good chance that this thread will actually make a difference

[leaf]

Hi Tim

"SydSoc membership cards resort to borrowing the very strong but not exactly Sydenham symbol of the Crystal Palace TV mast"

Do you know i actually like that tv mast! when returning from holidays etc i always felt like i was home once i could see that mast on the horizon!

So although it IS actually in crystal palace to me its representative of sydenham.

Not saying that should be used but just to illustrate how things can have a connection for people.

I dont think the dragon is a bad idea, just maybe there is something that is instantly reognisable as sydenhamy?

Maybe people could suggest alternative ideas here?

[Juwlz]

I think that one important fact in favour of using the dragon is that we have an existing image of it that could easily be adapted to 'logo' form.

I can't think of a strong image of a greyhound that exists. I seem to remember something about stone greyhounds standing outside the greyhound pub but because they are more upright I don't think the shape of those would be so good for a logo. I can't think of any other existing images of an actual greyhound - was there a board outside the pub with one on it?

The Crystal palace mast is fine, though not a very friendly image in my view, but the main problem with that as far as I can see is that it says 'Crystal Palace' rather than 'Sydenham'.

I think its hard to find an image that sums up the whole of Sydenham but at least it should be one that has a bit of local history attached to it and I think the dragon does that as well as anything.

[leenewham]

I knew this would happen.

Alfa Romeos symbol has a man being eaten by a serpent.

Mexico's flag as an eagle sitting on a cactus with a snake in it's mouth.

Nottingham has Robin Hood.

What do these have in common? They are all based on folklore, a story.

Don't forget St George slew a dragon.

The face that the Green dragon is the oldest symbol associated with the area and has history and a story behind it is a good reason to reinstate it as symbol for the area.

We did discuss the Greyhound as a symbol, but it's really a symbol for the pub, not for Sydenham. Steve Grindley posted some information on the dragon earlier. It's a nice story.

Much as I love the Eiffel Tower, it's a symbol for Paris, we can't use it for London. In the same way we can't use the Crystal Palace mast because it's a symbol for Crystal Palace.

The symbol has to be unique to us. That's the whole point having a symbol in the first place.

[leaf]

The crystal palace mast is only called the crystal palace mast because of the crystal palace.......which was built in SYDENHAM!!!

It only became crystal palace because of the crystal palace..but anyway.

Im not suggesting the tv mast be used at all, just that there are other things that people associate with sydenham more than the dragon that only the informed seem to actually know about.

[Juwlz]

Im not suggesting the tv mast be used at all, just that there are other things that people associate with sydenham more than the dragon that only the informed seem to actually know about.

Come on ... what are they then!!!?

[admin]

Well we would be one ahead of the valley folk. At least we would know it came from our own area. From Wikipedia:

The national flag of Wales is The Red Dragon .... The flag was granted official status in 1959 ... though the origin of the adoption of the dragon symbol is now lost in history and myth. A plausible theory is that the Romans brought the emblem to what is now Wales

Admin

[leaf]

Im not suggesting the tv mast be used at all, just that there are other things that people associate with sydenham more than the dragon that only the informed seem to actually know about.

Come on ... what are they then!!!?

Well rebel mc has already suggested the greyhound!

Im sure others could suggest their own?

POLL....how many forum readers think of green dragons when they think of sydenham??

[leaf]

"I can't think of a strong image of a greyhound that exists. I seem to remember something about stone greyhounds standing outside the greyhound pub but because they are more upright I don't think the shape of those would be so good for a logo. I can't think of any other existing images of an actual greyhound - was there a board outside the pub with one on it? "

I have been looking through the site trying to find one of the many pics of the stone greyhounds, but there is soo much stuff about the greyhound its taking a while!

The stone greyhounds were of sitting greyhounds and actually wouldnt be that hard to work with, i have seen pics of them from the side view that would be workable.

I think they were on the pub sign at one point, cant recall what the image was like though.

[admin]

POLL....how many forum readers think of green dragons when they think of sydenham??

Methinks '£' as in pound shops is the symbol most have of Sydenham. I suppose we might get UKIP to sponsor a huge £ on the roundabout. But I'm not sure everyone would be happy with that. Which means a symbol has, like most, to be invented. A good symbol works whatever its roots. The BMW roundel sells cars & bikes even if it is based on an aircraft propeller.

Green Dragon is on the list. If someone wants to work up some alternatives I would be delighted to run a POLL here to test opinion. Nominations (with an image) are open.

Admin

[leaf]

I think that the greyhounds were made from metal actually? not stone

I remember sitting on one when i was small.

still cant find a picture of them?

[lambchops]

Something I didn't know ... according to Wikipedia:

"Green Dragon is an alcoholic beverage made by leaching the leaves of the cannabis plant in a high-proof alcohol, most commonly vodka. The THC dissolves into the alcohol resulting in a dark green or brown liquid. Sugar is often also dissolved in the alcohol to mask the extremely bitter taste of the dissolved cannabinoids."

Admin

sounds great. are you brewing some up?

[admin]

sounds great. are you brewing some up?

Not anymore. These folks gatecrashed our local distillery: http://tinyurl.com/5b78wl

Admin

[lambchops]

hahaha!!

i like the idea of a greyhound, but first the actualy greyhound pub has to get up and running again!

greyhounds are good.

[Gaz]

Sorry if I appear to be peeing on the bonfire, but why the green dragon?

It might well have the claim to being the oldest symbol associated with Sydenham, but surely the gateway to Sydenham (as we know it today) is better represented by a greyhound?

I've lived here, on and off, for 35 years or so, and The Greyhound pub represents the beginning of Sydenham to me; it predates Cobbs by a substantial margin (and outlasted that particular department store by 20 odd years).

For me, I don't really enter Sydenham proper until I've gone past the Greyhound; sure, Kirkdale and Wells Park Road have their place in history, but there's nothing there that really represents modern Sydenham.

Whilst I certainly agree that The Greyhound pub is the symbolic entrance to Syd for a lot of people and that the (current) pub itself is recognisable, I'm not sure that an actual greyhound would be recognised as a icon/logo for Sydenham. If I see a greyhound my first thought would be Walthamstow Dogs or Wimbledon Dog Track. Also, it appears a lot of people from outside Syd would think of Dulwich Village when talking about 'a Greyhound pub' in SE London.

What I like about the idea of a Green Dragon (especially after reading the Journal story above) is that it would have a distinctive character (as opposed to the TV Mast or a Well). I also think it is appropriate as the colour envisages the trees, parkland and overall greenness of Sydenham which should be celebrated.

This logo could easily appear on all things Syd related (from paperwork to dustbins) and whilst a vane on the Cobbs corner roundabout should (IMO) be the obvious primary location; I can easily see it being repeated on the roundabout outside the Woodman and further down the High St to Lower Syd.

Gaz

[Juwlz]

leaf

I don't mind the idea of a greyhound. It would be a better idea than nothing at all.
I just prefer the dragon idea because its not attached to a particular business. That's my only problem with the greyhound, its basically advertising a pub.
That and the fact that I prefer dragons and i like the dragon that's on those pictures of the cottages.

[Juwlz]

I can just imagine we'll end up with something anodine like a tree in order not to upset anyone.