Find a Friend for our Forum!

[admin]

With the start up of a new Forest Hill Forum I was monitoring the number of posts they and SE23.COM got. It was nice to see their total was less than ours.

Our relative successt rests on a narrow range of frequent posters. The loss of any would also reduce posting from those who would otherwise cross swords and could easilyy put STF into serious decline. The answer is obviously get more regular posters. I think the answer lies with you and is two fold:

* Welcome every new poster. It can be difficult breaking into a little world where we all appear to know each other far too well. If they have posted naively there are nice ways to bring them up to speed.

* Find a friend who will start posting. I mean you do have friends don't you? Even a partner? Help 'em make that vital first post into a welcoming community.

There was a day when folks believed Facebook would rule the world. But they have peaked and its time to strike back and reclaim social media for the community rather than billionaires ...

Any other suggestions appreciated.

Admin

[michael]

Our relative success rests on a narrow range of frequent posters. The loss of any would also reduce posting from those who would otherwise cross swords and could easily put STF into serious decline. The answer is obviously get more regular posters.

"Narrow range" - far too narrow for me to regard myself as a frequent poster any longer. Excluding the football thread there are less than 10 frequent posters, and the top two probably post more than the next eight put together.
"those who would otherwise cross swords" - a great justification for pet trolls. Unfortunately I think they put off at least as many as they attract, but they do keep the regulars talking (at least until everybody else is bored of the same topic month after month).

Unlike you, I think Facebook and Twitter and slowly replacing forums, which is disappointing as I don't think they are as good for proper discussion. But there are ways forums can learn to adopt some of the social media aspects - for example 'like' buttons on postings (see South East Central). That way they might survive for a few more years before something better comes along (full integration with Facebook / Twitter for example).

One way to get new people to visit STF would be to tell Syd Soc members that it exists, either in their newsletter or their weekly enewsletter. I'm sure the local civic society would wish to support the local internet forum.

[admin]

But there are ways forums can learn to adopt some of the social media aspects - for example 'like' buttons on postings (see South East Central). That way they might survive for a few more years before something better comes along (full integration with Facebook / Twitter for example).

Yes Michael that's exactly what I wanted to do by moving to software that supported 'likes' and 'tagging' plus automatically taking you to the first unread post in a thread. But I was strongly voted down and it would cost money.

But may be I should go it alone and set up a more modern rival to STF

Admin

[Rachael]

Perhaps we need a more detailed breakdown of where the small number of posters cluster. My guess would be that there is a small cohort that hangs out in the pub, and that there are a wider range of posters in the town hall and cafe.

While I do sometimes dip into conversations in the pub, that's not really where my interest in a local forum lies. I want to use it for local information. I think that is where you need to keep a healthy amount of diverse traffic.

[admin]

I wouldn't want any of our regular posters to post less. it is just that if they post more they will even further appear to swamp all others. The answer is to swamp the existing people with newbies - increasing diversity and bringing some fresh views, issues and arguments to us all.

So, before we get diverted, are you all with the 'Find-a-Friend' idea and, more importantly, going to succeed at it? Or do have a better idea of putting the community into a community forum?

Admin (still looking for a friend)

[Conker]

With respect, not wanting to insult anyone for I have little to input anywhere other than the museum, for the time I have been reading this site before logging in, it sometimes looks as if its the Lund and Orton show.

[Robin Orton]

With respect, not wanting to insult anyone for I have little to input anywhere other than the museum, for the time I have been reading this site before logging in, it sometimes looks as if its the Lund and Orton show.

That's a pity. I always hope that other people will join in.

Couldn't it be seen as a bit patronizing explicitly to welcome new posters? I don't think anyone welcomed me when I first posted. Surely the important thing is for the rest of us to respond courteously and not to start being sarky until we've go to know the newcomer a bit.

I belong to Facebook and occasionally post things, but I have never seen anything like what I would call a proper discussion on it. (Perhaps I haven't chosen my 'friends' very well.) I suspect that if the Town Pub folded, I would have to try to find some blogs on subjects that interested me and contribute to the discussions there. But the beauty of the Town Pub is that you never know from one day to the next what topics are going to come up. (Oh no, that's not quite right, is it? I'd temporarily forgotten about Eagle.) Are there any other sites which host discussions on any topic which posters want to talk about?

[Annie.]

I think it can appear as if a couple of posters can bully other posters, Nigel has gone,haven't seen mike for a while, or 14B, at least Eagle carries on regardless.
If I were new to this forum,popping my head in for a peek I would be put off.

[14BradfordRoad]

I think it can appear as if a couple of posters can bully other posters, Nigel has gone,haven't seen mike for a while, or 14B, at least Eagle carries on regardless.
If I were new to this forum,popping my head in for a peek I would be put off.

Hi ya Annie,
Good observations and points Annie, as always!

I am still around but prefer not to do constant battle just to express a simple
viewpoint without the 'Spanish Inquisition'. Some have even been knit-picked
in the past for being grammatically incorrect or shopping in certain shops,
hardly encouraging! Many people in Sydenham didn't have the privilege of
good or further education! Pleased to see that 'Eagle' carries on regardless,
his posts always inspire others to interact.

[leenewham]

I agree 14B.

[Annie.]

Nice to hear from you 14b,

I come on here for more of a chat than facts and figures I guess.
My fault.

[admin]

At least this forum is surviving the Facebook/Twitter onslaught better than our immediate neighbours: Posts since 08/05/14:

Virtual Norwood ................... 52
SE23.COM ......................... 87
Forest Hill Forum .................19
Sydenham Town Forum ......378

In other words people are posting more than double the number of posts of all our neighbours combined. But before we get complacent East Dulwich Forum is a whole magnitude or so more popular. Most of their subforums take many times our total of all forums. What is so special about them? What might we learn?

Our popularity is mainly down to half a dozen or so posters. Without them we would be as dead as the competition. People won't post if there is nothing to post about.

So this issue is not asking our heavy posters to post less or becoming more bland. People do justifiably complain some tend to dominate but the only real solution to that is to drown them out with a wider spread of posts. Giving up and flouncing off just does the damage they complain of.

So, to revert to the subject of this thread - has anyone actually done anything?

Or has some positive suggestions of how we avoid going the way of our neighbours (two of whom used to be far more popular than us). Or do we really care about an independent forum where we enjoy and argue with each other or question and challenge authority or just learn a little more about where we live?

Forgive me if a little Friday frustration is showing.

Admin

[Tim Lund]

No quite so recently, I found myself doing a different sort of survey on the number of hits for the generally identical posts I do as 'Mayow Park' on this Forum and SE23.com. I was surprised to see rather more hits there than here, because my impression, from the number of posts and threads, was that discussion here was much livelier - as you confirm.

I have also been thinking about a more general response to this thread, in which I suspect I'm referred to in phrases such as "Spanish Inquisition", or being implicated in "it can appear as if a couple of posters can bully other posters, Nigel has gone, haven't seen mike for a while".

Rather than write something here, however, I'm thinking more of writing an email to various friends, mostly local, who may or may not be aware of this Forum, telling them about it, how I use it, why, and how they might use it. I know many people feel very uncomfortable about this Forum, because of how some posters - like me - do not conform to the conventions of normal social conversation. Tolerance of aliases is something else people don't like, but that's a different although related issue.

It requires more thought than I have time for ATM, but the gist of it will be that this is not normal social conversation (unless in the Café), that other conventions are required, what these conventions are, why, how to handle them, and why being able to handle them does not mean you are a stranger to the more comfortable social norms.

To illustrate with reference to another type of discourse, some years ago, after a disagreement in an allotment committee meeting, somebody said to me "I thought you and XXX were friends!". But of course we were, still are, and always had been. The difference was that XXX and I were comfortable with being able to say clearly what we thought in a committee meeting, and why we thought the other person was wrong. That's what happens with real debate, rather than when people just try to get a feel for what everybody else feels, and place themselves with the majority. But effective committees are ones where real discussions can happen, and better decisions emerge from having heard freely a range of opinion.

There are whole books written about the conduct of meetings, but the conduct of Forum discussions is much newer field, and just part of the wider area of how to use social media, which is why I don't feel I have the time to write more just now.

[hairybuddha]

I've only just come across this thread. Which probably sums up how narrow my contribution is...

For what it's worth, my view is that the site is definitely much weaker than similar local forums in terms of the community side of things. If people are genuinely interested in increasing the diversity of the traffic and the content you should look to get the branding out there at community events. So the idea of SydSoc newsletter is a good one. The Twitter account should be more active in an attempt to drive traffic to the site. And similarly an accompanying Facebook presence wouldn't be a bad thing.

Presumably admin now has a pretty good mailing list of members and ex-members. Perhaps a regular e-newsletter summarising some of the topics of discussion might revive interest.

[Robin Orton]

I suspect that what puts many people off using this forum is that some of us tend to post rather in the point-scoring style of contributions to an academic seminar or correspondence in a learned journal. I wonder whether this happens on other local forums such as EDF? Some people may find it either intimidating or just rather aggressive and rude.

[Annie.]

"Nigel has gone, haven't seen mike for a while"."


I believe I wrote this Tim, I absolutely did not have you in mind when I spoke about bullying on this forum, sorry if you thought I did.

[Rachael]

I suspect that what puts many people off using this forum is that some of us tend to post rather in the point-scoring style of contributions to an academic seminar or correspondence in a learned journal. I wonder whether this happens on other local forums such as EDF? Some people may find it either intimidating or just rather aggressive and rude.

Or *whispers* a bit boring.

Admin - can we examine the statistics more closely? Which part of the forum attracts the most posters, as opposed to the most posts? If the Pub has the most number of posts but the fewest posters, leave them to it, and focus on getting more traffic to the, um, useful parts of the forum.

[Tim Lund]

"Nigel has gone, haven't seen mike for a while"."


I believe I wrote this Tim, I absolutely did not have you in mind when I spoke about bullying on this forum, sorry if you thought I did.

No worries, Annie. I wasn't sure if you did, and I wasn't taking it personally. I was rough with Nigel, who'd like to think could still be a personal friend, although when I last saw him - at our allotments AGM - we didn't speak. Not that there was any reason we should have. I've sometimes been a bit abrasive with you, but I do try to judge these things, and not have a go at people who I don't think can handle it. Obviously sometimes I misjudge things, and if this becomes evident, then I try to apologise. The case of 'Sid Nam' was like this - that calmed down, and while he and I aren't going to agree on the Crystal Palace development, we'll be able to chat happily enough should we knowingly meet.

Where it's harder to resolve is when people are in an official or semi-official position, such as elected Councillors or people whose opinions, are taken as representatives of the local community, e.g. active members of SydSoc and the Forest Hill Society. Councillors should be able to, and generally can handle being criticised, and as long as they are doing a reasonable job - which most are - then there's no reason to criticise them. But if there is, and the reasons why can be given, then it's fair play.

One sort of difficulty I have is with thin skinned members of the local amenity societies who, whether they like or not (and actually they do) have a public role, but don't like the level of scrutiny which quite reasonably goes with it. I have twice received veiled threats of legal action from such - and no, it wasn't MaryMck on either occasion.

Another difficulty is with people who just keep coming back with what I think are bad arguments, although that's obviously a matter of opinion. This is an instance of where, I think, Forum rules differ. In 'normal social' you drop a subject of contention much sooner, because once everyone in the room knows what you think and what the other person thinks, then why go on? And also, you'd probably not want to have raised a contentious matter in the first place. In a committee, OTOH, you would want to raise issues which might be contentious, and argue them through as long as you're not repeating yourself, but once you've got to that point - or before, if the Chair intervenes, you stop and defer to the chair, and if necessary accept a vote on it. But in a Forum, it's always possible that other people will be reading, and taking what it written as the view of the community, and since it is possible for us all to speak at once, there's no reason for us not to say what we think, as long as it is relevant. On issues such as the closure of pubs there are those, e.g. G-Man, who will not accept that the pressure to convert to residential arising from the housing shortage is relevant. Maybe that is what he thinks, but if he wants a local web site to convey a picture of a community united in defence of the Windmill or any other failing pub, then go to the Sydenham Society site., Newsshopper or South London Press.

But, under the wise, benign moderation of Admin, this Forum is always going to the be livelier and more truthful site, and even when someone does, IMHO, keep coming back with aarguments, e.g. Lee on how markets work, it's still quite possible to be good friends - and the feelings are mutual. It's rather like my allotment committee disagreement with XXX (Nigel might have been at that meeting ...); it's just a matter of those looking on understanding that real friendships not only survive such disagreements, but can also be strengthened.

[Tim Lund]

I suspect that what puts many people off using this forum is that some of us tend to post rather in the point-scoring style of contributions to an academic seminar or correspondence in a learned journal. I wonder whether this happens on other local forums such as EDF? Some people may find it either intimidating or just rather aggressive and rude.

Or *whispers* a bit boring.

Admin - can we examine the statistics more closely? Which part of the forum attracts the most posters, as opposed to the most posts? If the Pub has the most number of posts but the fewest posters, leave them to it, and focus on getting more traffic to the, um, useful parts of the forum.

That's a reasonable enough point of view, which Admin tries to manage with the different Forums, although sometimes it goes haywire, e.g. with the thread 'Keen cycle nuts in Sydenham' which started off a straight Town Café thread, but then became more Town Hall / Pub.

I don't look much on the EDF, and the last time anyone mentioned it to me (by a Dulwich resident) it was very dismissively as somewhere to go for middle class group-think - so why MikeCG got thrown off. I'm well aware that some people are turned off and bored by those of us who sound as if we were trained on the letters page of the New York Review of Books, and Admin could, if he wants, take up my suggestion of a Town Seminar Room, which could even add some tone.

But, if we really want the Yummy Mummies of the East Dulwich diaspora, Admin will probably have to tell me not to make posts such as the one I made earlier today in repsonse to a thread promoting reflexology from 'Mothers inc', and which, along with the OP, he now appears to have removed. I suspect that is not going to happen, and thanks to the intractable old lefties such as Admin, Robin and me, Sydenhan, at least on line, will retain its gritty working class credentials.

[Conker]

Please excuse me, while I am logged in here, but 'gritty working class' is hardly the term I would use to describe the Lund and Orton road show person as I have read them on here.

Pseudo intellectual Guardian-ista poseurs with a deluded view of their influence on world affairs would be a cruel description that I would not dream of using in case I offended either.

As a very gritty [in the region of abrasive] working class person with the calloused hands of a true son of toil, scion of a family of market traders and ragged school graduates my opinion is proffered.

Other opinions are available, doubtless from both of the above mentioned, they will be, of course, completely wrong and should be discounted.

does this make me a bad person?