Zanzibar motorcycle races on kirkdale

[Eagle]

Mr T

I appreciate you are trying to sort the problem but unfortunately all the problems of anti social behavior happen on arrival or departure.

There is not sufficient legal car parking spaces for a start.

I find it hard to believe many drivers are not under influence of drugs or drink.

I appreciate your good intentions but you will have a major task.

This is a residential area and residents lives have been made a nightmare over recent years by the patrons having no regard at all for them.

[Rachael]

MrT - thanks for being up front about your identity. In the light of that, you might want to consider whether the tone of your first post here was very professional. Politely pointing out that the OP was mistaken in making the association between the club and the quad bikers might have been a better way to 'engage', not accuse them and the police of conspiring to make the club look bad.

[Smiffy]

... with a view of minimising any disturbance from our patrons. Constructive suggestions will be welcomed email address clubzanzibarsydenham@yahoo.co.uk

How about acknowledging you're in a residential area and closing at, say, 2am rather than 5? It's not rocket science is it?

[Ghlpc]

Smiffy, isn't rocket science, just pure maths I'm afraid.

Why close at 2am when you can get away with another 3 hours of paying customers?

It's business, and it's all about money. The management are just exploiting a very fortunate opportunity.

Blame the council and powers that be for allowing this to happen in a residential area.

Its a disgrace, and I feel sorry for all those affected.

[MrT]

ok as a general rule i will not be answering specific questions via this forum i will be dealing with specific complaints via our email address (clubzanzibarsydenham@yahoo.co.uk) however if and when anything of particular concern comes up I will try to address it via this forum.
Ok eagle re your comments
Point 1. "all the problems of anti social behavior happen on arrival or departure" I understand the majority of issues come at the arrival and departure of Patrons to the club, we have deployed three traffic stewards at he start of events this will be increased to four on our bigger nights. These guys/girls monitor people arriving and intervene when people sit in their cars playing music loudly. This measure has had a very positive effect on the situation, yes there has been occasions still of loud music and loud conversations but this has been decreased substantially in recent months. With regards to customers leaving the venue again we have 5 to 8 traffic stewards deployed along kirkdale keeping the traffic moving and asking our customers to be quite when leaving. Now i will admit we still need to improve on this problem, I have a few more ideas to apply to the issue which will come into effect soon.
Point 2. "There is not sufficient legal car parking spaces for a start". Regarding parking there is enough legal spaces for customers to park, (the council would not have issued a licence in the first place if their was not), the problem is parking restrictions is not enforced at night in Sydenham. If Lewisham council stop having traffic wardens enforcing parking restrictions on Kirkdate in the day you would soon see the public parking their cars on the pavements, hogging parking bays and clogging up the road. Again our traffic stewards speak to drivers and ask them to park correctly to which the majority do, but unfortunately we can not issue parking tickets and there will always be a few members of the public who feel the rules do not apply to them, in which case a fine or removal of their cars is the only action they will understand.
Point 3. " find it hard to believe many drivers are not under influence of drugs or drink" I think this statement is completely unfair and unfounded. There is no evidence that there has been an increase in drink driving incidents or drug related incidents in or around the club, we have a zero tolerance to drugs at the club and if drunken behaviour was a issue I am sure the police would put in place some sort of operation (with our full support) to apprehend the culprits. You are making these unfounded negative statements to tarnish the clubs image and reputation.
Point 4. "but you will have a major task." yes i agree but every long journey begins with a first step. we have taken our first steps.
Point 5. "This is a residential area and residents lives have been made a nightmare over recent years by the patrons having no regard at all for them." on this point i acknowledge there has been a problem I am here to change that experience and that is what i will do.

i look forward to hearing some good suggestions from you to improve matters

MrT

[MrT]

MrT - thanks for being up front about your identity. In the light of that, you might want to consider whether the tone of your first post here was very professional. Politely pointing out that the OP was mistaken in making the association between the club and the quad bikers might have been a better way to 'engage', not accuse them and the police of conspiring to make the club look bad.

point taken Rachael

[Smiffy]

You are making these unfounded negative statements to tarnish the clubs image and reputation.

I think the club's done a pretty good job of that itself.

[Rachael]

The last time a licensing review was imminent, the owner of the club made overtures to local entrepreneurs, saying he wanted to make a different sort of venue. He then reneged on all those plans after the review happened. Now we have the new manager promising to make changes, just a few months before the appeal. I hope residents will keep a very close eye on how many of these changes are maintained after the hearing in September.

[Annie.]

What concerns me is the fact that the patrons specifically go to the Zanzibar after 2am because it is open till 5am, ok, so how do they travel from one club to the other? I would suggest by car?
Therefore unless every driver is a soul of virtue does that mean Drunk Driving takes place?

I would have police waiting on street corners in and out of Sydenham, if not drunk no issue surely.

[Ghlpc]

Mr T - "i look forward to hearing some good suggestions from you to improve matters"

Easy, take your business model elsewhere.

[Eagle]

I am beginning to feel a little sorry for the new manager who at least seems to be trying to communicate.

In answer to your points.

1. Your stewards very welcome but one wonders if the clientelle of a civilised nature , why they need instructing to be quiet.
Also I guess your stewards have no legal rights to stop people so may get nowhere.

2. Not sure what you are implying re parking restrictions being enforced in middle of the night. I would have thought parking on pavement or close to a turning was illegal at any time.
What percentage of your clients come by nightbus ? 1% or 95% ??

In general locals have had to put up with horrific occurances as BBQ's at petrol station forecourt , public urinantion.etc

Do you not have conveniences at your site.

[JRobinson]

I have a work colleague who goes to Soca nights at Zanzibar. She is very religious and doesn't drink alcohol or take drugs, but she does still enjoy dancing to Carribean music till 5am. I find it hard to believe that she's not unique in her attitude.

a couple of easy questions to answer - how many people does the club hold? How many of these people are actually behaving antisocially on arrival or exit?

as elsewhere in life, I suspect a small minority spoiling something good for the rest of us.

[robbieduncan]

as elsewhere in life, I suspect a small minority spoiling something good for the rest of us.

Simple solution then. Any of the punters seen by the stewards (or if photographic/video evidence is provided by public) seen acting antisocially as they leave are banned by the management for a reasonable amount of time.

[MrT]

Any of the punters seen by the stewards (or if photographic/video evidence is provided by public) seen acting antisocially as they leave are banned by the management for a reasonable amount of time.

sounds like a good idea will bring it up at my next club meeting

[John J Rambo]

A point already made a few times but worth repeating. There is not necessarily a link between Zanzibar and these idiots who have been spotted the past few weeks driving quad bikes around Sydenham. It is not constructive to blame every incident in the local area on one bar or group. To do so only for it subsequently to be shown that quad bikers have nothing to do with Zanzibar only weakens the arguments of local residents (who have justifiable concerns).

As for the quad bikers....as far I am concerned if they choose to drive around without a helmet whilst disturbing all and sundry within a half-mile radius during the day and night and have a fatal accident, that is tough.

[Nigel]

Mr T
You asked for suggestions and here is one :
How about you reduce all public nuisance caused by your business to an immeasurably low level through decent management ?
I realise you have inherited this poison chalice but I'm sure you did your home work before taking the job .
The minority that spoil it for others is nothing new and not an argument . If i were woken up by the bestial behaviour reported on this forum I would not be inclined to count the number of offenders , divide by the number in the club and multiply by 100.
What percentage of your customers peeing in gardens, parking on pavements and shouting at 5 am do you think is acceptable ?.
Last point , don't blame lewisham council for not paying parking wardens to police your club parking offences . If you were not here we would have no problem .
If I had a party at my house I would be responsible for the behaviour and impact of my guests as you are .

It seems negative to say there is little point "engaging "with the club but I think the honest answer is that most of those affected have zero trust of your predecessor , or of Cllr Brooks and would all vote , if asked , for your complete removal .
Good evening
Nigel

[susan]

MrT,

Re your post of 29 July:-

Can you elaborate on the "few more ideas ... which will come into effect soon" (point 1 -antisocial behaviour).

Where is the "enough legal spaces for customers to park" you mention? And why are your patrons not using them, rather than the pavements and private drives? (point 2).

You offer a fair comment to points 3 and 4.

Thank you at least for publicly acknowledging that "... residents lives have been made a nightmare over recent years by the patrons having no regard for them at all". You say that you are "here to change that experience and that is what I will do". Again, can you elaborate please?

Thank you, from one resident whose life has been made a nightmare ..

[SquashedCommuter]

It seems most of the problems are caused by patrons leaving Zanzibar, not being inside it.

If the closing time was change from 5am to 2am, would that just mean residents are woken up at 2am instead of 5am?

How about changing the closing time to 6am or 7am and making it illegal for anyone to leave Zanzibar during the night without being first directed to the lavatories and then individually frogmarched and held in silence until far away from the residential area (e.g. onto a night bus) at Zanzibar's expense (who are welcome to recharge the costs to leaving patrons). Zanzibar could also make money renting sleeping bags and thereby make use of the unused capacity which is 290 for larger events or 590 for smaller ones.

It has also crossed my mind about the shortage of prison space. Could Zanzibar instead be converted into a prison?

[Annie.]

Interested to know if you live nearby?

[SquashedCommuter]

Interested to know if you live nearby?

Hi Annie, I'm not sure if you were asking me (you could have been asking MrT), but I do live in Sydenham, but not close enough to Zanzibar to be directly affected by it. I think all residents of Sydenham should join up together with the directly affected residents and campaign to get this out-of-place Zanzibar closed down. I am sure the vast majority of us all know how it feels to be woken up in the night by some inconsiderate hooligans.

Regarding the motorbikes, this is definitely a wider problem. I've seen a boy in the quad going up and down, standing up, doing wheelies, swerving all over the road and shamelessly attention seeking. I am sure the Zanzibar lot weren't exactly encouraging him to be more considerate.

Any of the punters seen by the stewards (or if photographic/video evidence is provided by public) seen acting antisocially as they leave are banned by the management for a reasonable amount of time.

sounds like a good idea will bring it up at my next club meeting

Has this really never passed through the minds of the management before?

The fact remains, however hard you try, whatever good intentions you might have, this is a residential area and a place like Zanzibar remaining open throughout the night is always going to attract noisy nocturnal characters.