Out of control kids in Fairlawn Park

[Paddy Pantsdown]

Actually Paddy, you are defending them.

How?

PP

[Howard Staunton]

I'm not defending those kids. But I would be pretty pi**ed off if I was a young lad with the way I'm treated by us lot. Its hardly surprising when in return they show us no favours. The first Sydenham Assembly noted the lack and removal of youth activities in our Town. We need to do something about it. There were a lot of teenages there who wanted to help. Can we look on this problem more positively than as pure crime & punishment issue.
PP

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your comments. Although If I were in Jessie's shoes I might feel the requirement for a large stick rather than a large carrot

[Jessie]

[quote="Jessie]kids should be aloud to play out

Is that a deliberate typo? - considernig the noise... [/quote][/quote]
lol lol lol lol nope sorry just a typo my spelling is not the best when i am upset lol

[Paddy Pantsdown]

[I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your comments. Although If I were in Jessie's shoes I might feel the requirement for a large stick rather than a large carrot

I guess all I'm saying is it is important to try and understand the enemy and his options before deciding to deploy the stick, carrot or both. It is what works that counts. Purely tactical decision if you can put the emotions aside.

Which I agree is quite hard with some of the monsters we have created. Especially as my experience of FP was of it as one of the most community friendly streets in town.

PP

[Howard Staunton]

Paddy, I am just glad that we remain 'forum friends'.

Howard

[Jessie]

[I wouldn't necessarily disagree with your comments. Although If I were in Jessie's shoes I might feel the requirement for a large stick rather than a large carrot

I guess all I'm saying is it is important to try and understand the enemy and his options before deciding to deploy the stick, carrot or both. It is what works that counts. Purely tactical decision if you can put the emotions aside.

Which I agree is quite hard with some of the monsters we have created. Especially as my experience of FP was of it as one of the most community friendly streets in town.

PP

Paddy FP used to be a lovely area everone new everone there is only a few orignial members left there now as people have moved out from the trouble. like alovely couple who lived there for over 40 years and beacuse there next door (hyde tennets) caused them so much upset they moved away.

[Howard Staunton]

It is no doubt true that some people have moved from Fairlawn Park due to the anti-social behaviour of a minority of the streets residents and their friends. But many more have moved because they have reached an age were they wish to live closer to other family members, or just relocate and retire to a more relaxing part of the country away from the hussle, bussle and stress of the metropolis. Downsizing also plays a part of course.

My experience of my near-neighbours at the top (allotment) end of Fairlawn Park is of young(ish), pleasant, friendly people who make ideal neighbours. The long-term future of FP is bright.

[lambchops]

it's those goddamn breeding parents!

if people stopped having sprogs then all would be well.

[bensonby]

it's those goddamn breeding parents!

if people stopped having sprogs then all would be well.

if people raised their kids properly then all would be well......

[leenewham]

Fairlawn Park is next to a park. The park has very little in it for kids aside from a run down looking adventure playground. The football nets have been removed. There is nothing for kids to do. On a hot sunny saturday I counted 5 people in the park.

The park needs developing in my view. Footaball nets, a basketball court/five aside court, perhaps a concrete tabel tennis table, or even a tennis court.

Whats the point in a park is no-one uses it?

How about involving the library in events in the park. They suffer from anti social behavoir from kids too.

Home Park used to host football tournaments in there. It was something to do. They used to have fetés in there. It could be a real asset, not just for kids but for families. Look at Wells Park now it's had some money spent on it.

It wont solve all the problems but I believe it will help.

[Howard Staunton]

Lee, you are absolutely right to point out that Home Park is severely underutilised and would benefit greatly from some investment. I have always thought this was the case whenever I have walked past on a summer's day to see few, if any, people in the park.

Although it should be said it would take no more than 40 seconds for those playing football in Fairlawn Park to walk to Home Park and kick a ball about on the grass.

I am beginning to sound like my father. It's depressing.

[Jessie]

Lee i agree with you HP does need a lot of attention it used to be a nice park and now just really need some TLC, But Lee i really don't think this would change the fact they would still rather play football up against our cars.

Ohh well we could go around in circles all the time but nothing will change let home the six weeks holiday is not as bad as when they was out in the hot weather not so long agao till 3:30 in the morning causing trouble and damage property.

[TheDon]

Jessie

I agree with everything you have said and it is about time we reclaimed the streets from these ferol youths who have no respect for anything or anyone. My first thought would be to meet outside numbers ** and ** FP and do as was suggested by others and discuss these problems with the residents but as is always the case it will be us, the law abiding, who would be in the wrong somehow. So it is up to the authorities and Hyde Housing to do something aboutbthe problems with thier tenants no matter how thin the blue line is. I suggest that we all contact Barry Tucker who is the princple housing officer at Hyde whenever anything happens and see how long it takes for him to get fed up and actually do something. And I bet he doesn't live in the street cos if he did things would be sorted fairly sharpish. Also it may be a good idea if the residents association got in touch with Hyde and invited them to the next meeting because from what I have been told they didn't know about the RA.

[floom]

bensonby---its our duty as law-abiding citizens to challenge illegal and anti-social behaviour. We can't just leave it up to the police -

Have you ever tried to take a stand? All you get from the rest of the public is a blank stare.

I have no intention now of risking my life or limb for this dirty, worthless public. I wouldn't even guide a dying man to a funeral parlour.

[bensonby]

bensonby---its our duty as law-abiding citizens to challenge illegal and anti-social behaviour. We can't just leave it up to the police -

Have you ever tried to take a stand? All you get from the rest of the public is a blank stare.

Yes, of course I have. I wouldn't have mentioned it otherwise.

I have no intention now of risking my life or limb for this dirty, worthless public. I wouldn't even guide a dying man to a funeral parlour.

Well that is eaxctly the kind of attitude that gives over the control to criminals and anti-social people and has put paid to community spirit. Wwe cannot delegate all our problems to the authorities.

[natbeuk]

Well that is eaxctly the kind of attitude that gives over the control to criminals and anti-social people and has put paid to community spirit. Wwe cannot delegate all our problems to the authorities.

Ummm... isn't that what the authorities are there for??

I've resisted wading into this before, but I have to chuck my 2p's worth in. We have laws and regulations which are intended to protect us and our rights, we have authorities whose job it is to enforce these laws and regulations. If we see something which we think puts our rights in jeopardy then we should speak out, contact authorities, sign petitions, organise group protests, etc etc.. but we should never put our own safety in danger.

The sad truth is that we live in a world where you can get beaten to death just for speaking up against queue-jumping, as happened in Merton the other week. We shouldn't lay down and accept this but we should make our voices heard safely, by putting pressure on the authorities to do their job properly. We should not be out there putting ourselves at risk by confronting the perpetrators ourselves if we don't feel comfortable doing so, and IMHO, to encourage people to do so is irresponsible.

[bensonby]

Well that is eaxctly the kind of attitude that gives over the control to criminals and anti-social people and has put paid to community spirit. Wwe cannot delegate all our problems to the authorities.

Ummm... isn't that what the authorities are there for??

I've resisted wading into this before, but I have to chuck my 2p's worth in. We have laws and regulations which are intended to protect us and our rights, we have authorities whose job it is to enforce these laws and regulations. If we see something which we think puts our rights in jeopardy then we should speak out, contact authorities, sign petitions, organise group protests, etc etc.. but we should never put our own safety in danger.

The sad truth is that we live in a world where you can get beaten to death just for speaking up against queue-jumping, as happened in Merton the other week. We shouldn't lay down and accept this but we should make our voices heard safely, by putting pressure on the authorities to do their job properly. We should not be out there putting ourselves at risk by confronting the perpetrators ourselves if we don't feel comfortable doing so, and IMHO, to encourage people to do so is irresponsible.

What a sad state we are in if grown adults don't feel safe in discipling a child.

Of course we should not put ourselves in danger, but it is also wrong to expect the authorities to sort everything out for us- unless we really want a society where everyone is armed and every 4th person is a police officer.

You want authorities to "do their job properly" - well what do you think the authorities are doing all day? Do you genuinely believe that the police sit in the office all day drinking tea and only deal with "easy" crimes such as motoring offences?

You are right that we should challenge safely crime and ASB - that is our job as citizens. I never advocated wading in as a violent-vigilante superman. But our police force was based upon the princible that "the police are the public and the public are the police" (R. Peel) where the police are merely 'citizens in uniform' who are employed to perform their
civic duty on a full-tim basis.

We don't have a (too) overbearing state in this country and the law treats us like adults and trusts us to sort out our issues by ourselves on the whole. Why are we in a situation where we feel unable to challenge unacceptable behaviour? Why do we feel the need to cry for the authorities in nneighbour-disputes?

One answer is that the "meedja" is partly to blame - did you know that crime, and violent crime, is actually at the lowest per-capita that it has ever been in this country? And yet fear of crime is at its highest ever....

We all have a right to not be the victims of crime and ASB and we all have a right, and a duty, to challenge crime and ASB - and we have the right to use force, when necessary and reasonable, to perform this duty.

The authorities cannot be everywhere - nor is it their job to intervene in every dispute. Can you imagine what the world would be like if the police were called to every argument and dispute? Can you imagine the resources that that would require?

Are you willing to pay for that through your taxes?

[bensonby]

just a few figures to provide food for thought:

There are a shade over 600 police officers on the London Borough of Lewisham.*

Of those, say, 150-200 will be in specialist departments - CID, Mounted branch, flying squad, back-room duties and so on...

some will be off sick, some will be off on courses &c.

some will be dedicated to foot patrol.



That probably leaves around 350 officers who are mobile and can deal with callouts. these are split onto "teams" to work the shifts.

There are 5 teams - one will run the early turn, one the late and one will be on nights. The other two will be on rest days.

That will see about 50 officers actually parading for duty per shift - on a good day.

serving a population of a quarter of a million people.

I won't even go into how long and time-consuming some of thing that police get involed in can be....


I'd argue that's a pretty thin spread...one cannot expect the police to be on hand all the time for all their disputes...

*Source

[natbeuk]

What a sad state we are in if grown adults don't feel safe in discipling a child.

I agree, but sadly kids these days sometimes carry knives. Sometimes they operate in gangs that will happily injure others or damage property. It's tragic, but it's true.

Of course we should not put ourselves in danger, but it is also wrong to expect the authorities to sort everything out for us- unless we really want a society where everyone is armed and every 4th person is a police officer.

Really not sure how you come to that conclusion, why is there no middle ground?

You want authorities to "do their job properly" - well what do you think the authorities are doing all day? Do you genuinely believe that the police sit in the office all day drinking tea and only deal with "easy" crimes such as motoring offences?

Sorry, when exactly did I say that? Authorities have their own budgets, priorities, etc, and they don't always align with the community so sometimes they need community pressure to focus on what is important to the people whose taxes are paying for them.

I never said they are just sitting around doing nothing - feel free to argue with me but please do not put words in my mouth.

You are right that we should challenge safely crime and ASB - that is our job as citizens. I never advocated wading in as a violent-vigilante superman. But our police force was based upon the princible that "the police are the public and the public are the police" (R. Peel) where the police are merely 'citizens in uniform' who are employed to perform their
civic duty on a full-tim basis.

And when did this principle come into being? Perhaps it needs updating??

We don't have a (too) overbearing state in this country and the law treats us like adults and trusts us to sort out our issues by ourselves on the whole. Why are we in a situation where we feel unable to challenge unacceptable behaviour? Why do we feel the need to cry for the authorities in nneighbour-disputes?

Because of all the cases that have been in the media over the last few years. Innocent people have been killed while standing up for their rights and trying to stop anti-social behaviour themselves. The average person does not have training or resources to deal with these situations. Police do. The majority of local yobs will not kill someone who stands up to them, but how do you decide the probability of it happening in every case? Is it worth the risk? When you have a family, young children, a home, etc, to protect, that becomes incredibly hard to judge.

One answer is that the "meedja" is partly to blame - did you know that crime, and violent crime, is actually at the lowest per-capita that it has ever been in this country? And yet fear of crime is at its highest ever....

I bet that's great comfort to the likes of Paul Barnes and Gary Newlove.

We all have a right to not be the victims of crime and ASB and we all have a right, and a duty, to challenge crime and ASB - and we have the right to use force, when necessary and reasonable, to perform this duty.

The authorities cannot be everywhere - nor is it their job to intervene in every dispute. Can you imagine what the world would be like if the police were called to every argument and dispute? Can you imagine the resources that that would require?

Are you willing to pay for that through your taxes?

And we have a right to be safe, to be protected by the Police whose taxes we pay for, and to make a choice to NOT get involved if we think there is even a slight risk that we or our property or our family may be harmed.

I think you are very naive and idealistic in your views, sorry. The world is the way it is for a myriad of reasons. There may be more chance of winning the lottery than of getting bashed by a gang of young hooligans, but when they're on your front doorstep you need to think long and hard about whether you, personally, should be challenging them.

That is all the point I am trying to make. It would be lovely to be able to be able to go around, acting like a policeman, but it would also be foolhardy in many, many situations.

[natbeuk]

That will see about 50 officers actually parading for duty per shift - on a good day.

serving a population of a quarter of a million people.

I won't even go into how long and time-consuming some of thing that police get involed in can be....


I'd argue that's a pretty thin spread...one cannot expect the police to be on hand all the time for all their disputes...

*Source

Which is why I mentioned "authorities", plural. It's not just a choice of call the Police or do it yourself. What about housing authorities, the local council, your MP... and if all else fails you join with other residents, and together you work together to find a way to SAFELY solve the problem.

You seem to be very much in favour of the individual taking things into their own hands. My point is that this is not a safe or wise course of action.